Revisiting Auctions: Keep or Ban 'em?

There should be some distinct FT/ISO. So yes, "make me an offer" or other blatant auction tactics should go away.

Beyond that it becomes a bit of a grey area. For example what if the posted ISO is 3 specific bottles but you only have two—you offer those two and then offer some other options to make up for not having the third bottle. There is often a bit of negotiation especially in situations where it's not 1:1. Unfortunately, someone may be fielding many such offers simultaneously which ultimately equates to an auction. Then there are conversations to be had about value, secondary value, perceived value...

I like to see specific FT/ISO but there has to be some freedom there. Can actually be a fun part of trading.

 

Another thing I'll add is when traders (I've also done this plenty of times) sometimes post lists of multiple ISOs, certain ones will be ranked above others, as in, you post 5 ISOs, but one is the main item. Maybe some of your FTs are reserved for those larger ISOs. Someone may (and will) message you asking for that big bottle, offering a lesser "want". I think most people would hold out to get the bottle they actually want to trade their bigger one(s) for. I don't think that's an auction, but rather allocation. The same way some people like to use "points", I suppose. A lot of little things like that could easily be mistaken for something else, like an auction, unless clear distinctions are made in rulemaking.

 

This hypothetical trader should probably -if they don't want their post looking like an auction- indicate which FT are for which ISO or vice versa. Otherwise, it may appear that certain bottles are available for certain other bottles when in fact they are not (apparently?). Being super vague and not defining wants and haves is what would allow this hypothetical trader to engage in an auction if they wanted to.

As an aside, I do agree whoeheartedly with @Mista_Carta about some of the charm in trading being the back-and-forth that can occur beyond the initial ISO/FT. I've been delighted before to find out that someone was offering me something I really wanted offhandedly that I didn't list, and I'm sure the opposite has happened.

 

I fail to see how that scenario can me mistaken as an auction. You have specific bottles for trade, and specific bottles you're in search of. If you have a couple of extremely expensive, extremely limited bottles for trade, and a couple of shelf-accessible bottles mixed in with your ISOs, you may not want to trade, say, a BBT for a B-Bomb, ya know? That's why people say, "higher ratios for bigger bottles", or add asterisks. Is that an auction?

 

I'm with @JohnnyHopps, I like seeing trades completed. Banning them may help the casual trader know they can come to Beer Advocate and complete a fair trade.
On the flip side
I don't want to see FT list ISO list or FT "big beer" ISO bulk(of some kind) being banned. Some people have several beers/breweries they are interested in.

What if there was another ISO/FT forum

 

That makes perfect sense! I'm sorry you misunderstood. My comment above only asks that this hypothetical trader make this clear somehow. An asterisk, like you mention, is one way to do so. Otherwise, it may look like the trader is only putting Big Bottle in amongst others as a way of luring out the best offer possible out of many, even when people PM about an ISO (i.e. conducting a "silent auction").

Again, as I said above -- I don't think a vague list on its own equals an auction by any means. It's what occurs behind the scenes afterwards that does. But something as vague as a FT/ISO list of 100 bottles of wildly different rarity certainly invites the best offers possible -and a high number of them- which gives off the appearance of an auction being conducted. I hope that helps!

 

For me, if a trade post brings out tons of replies, it’s never a good thing. It likely has “auction” vibe even if auctions are allowed. Or it’s just poorly put together.

People that can’t at the minimum list specific breweries and even better specific beers in their trade posts are the issue.

Things like, “what do you have, send me your best offer, shoot your shot”, should be immediately shut down, imo. It’s lazy trading and poor form. Do better.

New AND old traders make the same mistakes and don’t even proofread their threads. It’s brutal. Be clear, be specific, and your trading experience will be that much better.

 

I don't really use the FT:ISO forums, so forgive my ignorance. I guess understand not wanting

FT: Whale
ISO: Best Offer

But is there a bright line difference between an auction and a negotiation? If you're negotiating with one person and someone else makes a better offer, is that an auction?

 

As an aside to this, there are rarely "cellar clearing" type posts on BA. Part of this is it is a casualty of the secondary market. I would hope these types of listings would not be considered auctions when they OP is just looking to try new things.

 

I'm sure everyone doesn't practice this, but I'll only respond to replies in order I receive them. The hard part is how long to wait before moving on to next reply. I've waited 24+ hours for a reply before moving on and ended up losing out as the second guy moved on.

 

Agreed here, I think we all know what an obvious auction is, but "defining" an auction so that it is black and white for all to understand is different. One person's view of a post as an auction may not correlate to another user. As mods review reported posts, it could be subjective based on their view as well.

I agree with eliminating the obvious, but the "definition" of an auction could take some time. Either way, I do think a warning and explanation should be warranted prior to banning someone.

 

Wow, the results of the poll (early as they may be) are surprising — 30 votes for “Keep ‘em.” I haven’t seen anyone support that view in the thread here, maybe someone could give voice to that perspective so that others chiming in can better understand it?

 

This is a big concern of mine. I'm 100% for getting rid of what would unequivocally count as a bona fide auction post, but I can already see spiteful people reporting others that they just don't like, trying their absolute best to twist it into a perceived auction, and that would be terribly messy. "Oh, Sotheby's over here said "also open to stouts", and that's definitely auction-like rhetoric, bring out the BAN HAMMAH".

I mean, you can just see it.

 

Auctions?

Sure, I'm down. I've never been apart of one. But yeah, sure sounds fun, I'm in. There's nothing to loose and if someone has a better trade that'd OP wants more then cool, I'm all for it. I think it would give me a better perspective on beer for beer trades. I usually just do $4$ with beer anyway and seems fair for both parties. I'm rambling, this Punta Breath strain is good stuff. Beer sounds good mmm, beer.

 

Leave the free market alone.

One mans opinion.

 

I’m in the “let us monitor them by keeping comments on in trade forums” camp. We do a pretty good job at self regulating. I’ve often posted an ISO with a long list of FT bc I didn’t know what it would take. And inversely I’ve posted an FT with a “great BA stout” and given a few brewery preferences in my ISO. Rarely do either of those get done for me, honestly. So I feel like the ‘invisible hand’ of the market kind of works here. What really helps me are the threads about closed trades and what got them done. Straight up flagrant auctions isn’t something I’d particularly like to see for this site (FT: xyz beer; ISO: best offer) - so allowing the nebulous posts feels like the right happy medium - because often people have something cool and want all kinds of different things but don’t have a specific “ask” in mind, so they want the inbounds and then to sort through options. I don’t see the harm in it, frankly - free markets and all that. Flagrant dbaggery is what should be called out and I think it is.

 

Just ban obvious dbags. It ain’t that hard.

 

No thanks.

 

I say they should not be allowed. If you don’t know what you’re looking for in a trade, figure it out before posting. I prefer dealing with people who are transparent & honestly, I don’t have time for games.