American & Russian Imperial Stouts

Historically, I have picked up dark fruity esters in the RIS style that I didn't find in other Imperial Stouts but I agree that the distinction has become blurred. I just took a look at the 2015 BJCP guidelines and they don't make a distinction but lump everything together as Imperial Stouts. I do agree that the pastry and other flavored stouts should be considered as a different category.

 

Agree, not sure even the best tasters could tell differences between many of the beers listed as American Imperial vs. RIS vs Baltic Porter for that matter. But they are historical styles so the names need to stick. As far as Pastry stouts, could perhaps we create "Imperial Sweet Stout" as a new style...then any Milk/Sweet stouts over 8% ABV could go to the new "Imperial Sweet Stout" style? Just an idea, especially if "pastry stout" isn't a good name to go with.

 

I do like the idea of breaking out flavored imperial stouts under the American category. I could see breaking it down into fruit-based and dessert-based flavored stouts as well. I would also think that having a category just for barrel aged imperial stouts would be in order as well. The ability of a stout to hold up/not hold up under whatever type of spirit soaked barrel it has been aged in does speak to how its a different style. In some cases, the stout may not be that good outside the barrel, and it gets better once in it. In other cases, all you get is the barrel flavor and the underlying stout gets lost. Calling it out as a style might help define what makes a good one. Mind you, with all the different barrels being tried (bourbon, scotch, rum, etc.) that might not be so easy.

 

Yes, RIS to me as well have a dark fruit complex, that Impy's do not.

Cheers!

 

After looking at my reviews, it took me awhile to pick up on the difference.

Cheers!

 

Well, after looking at some Impy reviews, I've also noticed the dark fruit complex.

Cheers!

 

I think they should be separate without question.

RIS I find especially in the classic examples has as @brentk56 mentioned a fruity character ester at times that I notice too... often too me it reminds me of a strawberry quality, not unlike some English Bitters and there is I find a creamy quality as well... sort of like a hint towards Baltic Porter but not quite.

That's what I get sometimes on those RISs ... Some of the American examples I will agree don't have this but that doesn't make them a bad beer by any means though.

 

To me, the distinction is the American versions have a harsh edge, more bitter a bit astringent. Often cigarette ash comes to mind.

As for the dessert stouts, they are definitely something different. They and the base stout styles deserve to be distinguished. I have some ideas about how to define a style guide. I might have something worth posting this weekend.

 

I'm not sure about that. I will also check the label to see what the brewery is calling it. I was so sure that was the difference between the RIS and Impy, then I had to go look at my reviews. I might just go out on a limb and say for the most part, the dark fruit complex is more of a RIS charateristic.

Cheers!

 

Actually I was just looking through Robust Porters, Baltic, Imperial Porters, RIS....Im seeing A lot of pastry stouts spread through many of theses styles. For the integrity of the original styles without maple, bacon and marshmallow additions, I really think a new style needs added to capture the pastries. But do we honor the Brewer or honor the style? By that,I mean if Brewer labels a beer as “Marshmallow, Cookie dough and Maple Baltic Porter” do you override the Brewer’s marketing and put it on the site as a Pastry stout style?

 

In your example, if it is a Baltic Porter, it’s going to be a lager not an ale, so in my opinion it should be left at Baltic Porter. I have always gone by what the brewer markets it as when I add a beer. Sometimes it takes some research or even contacting the brewery to ask what their intention was if lines are blurred. I do like the idea of an Imperial Sweet Stout as a style, as they don’t exactly fit in the current sweet/milk stout style that well.

 

BA's styles differ from BJCP styles already, and with so much innovation, it seems fair to find how the beer fits with BA's guides. There is no disrespect in this approach.

Especially given there is no such style as Pastry Stout, (BTW, I think a better term is "Dessert Stout") i think we have a fair degree of latitude in what to put here. The bigger question seems to be how this would parse out the age old distinction between Stout and Porter.

Personally, it seems we could lump in all the relevant Stout/Porter variants into a single style. With time, if the volume and distinctions become clear enough, we can separate them out. Even as @barnzy78 makes a good point about Lager vs. Ale.

 

Yeah, the Baltic Porter one was an easy one to jump on (lager vs ale), but you’re right - it is getting harder and harder to decide what style to put a beer under...especially with those sweet ‘dessert’ stouts and those that cross style boundaries. I generally put the dessert/pastry stouts under the Stout - Sweet / Milk style category when adding a new beer, unless the brewery is marketing it as something different.