Separate Entries For Different Barrels?

Talk Discussion in 'BeerAdvocate Talk' started by REVZEB, Feb 10, 2021.

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Does the same beer put into a different barrel warrant a separate entry on beeradvocate?

  1. Yes

    56.5%
  2. No

    16.5%
  3. Depends- Please Comment To Explain

    27.1%
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  1. REVZEB

    REVZEB Grand High Pooh-Bah (7,686) Mar 28, 2013 Illinois
    BA4LYFE Society Pooh-Bah Trader

    Been having this discussion and wanted to take it to the community. Does the same beer put into a different barrel warrant a separate entry on beeradvocate? Some situations to consider:
    Example A: when bourbon county was put in different single barrels this year (HH, WT, BT) should those be listed as separate beers compared to regular bcbs (which is a blend of all 3 barrels) or simply noted on the bcbs entry?
    Example B: Bourbon county wheatwine uses different barrels for 2018 and 2019. Should they be separate entries or two vintages on the same bcbs wheatwine entry?
    Example C: Brewery X advertises their new bba stout as a double release, one in weller barrels and the other heaven hill. Should BA ignore that ad and have as same beer since only difference is the barrel? Would your answer change if one was bourbon and the other was a different spirit like cognac, instead of them being different brands of the same spirit?

    I ask this because I have found us on the site to be inconsistent in how we track “barrel variants” and I want to know if people think it matters or not. Thanks for tour input and cheers!
     
  2. dennisthreeninefiveone

    dennisthreeninefiveone Pundit (980) Aug 11, 2020 New Jersey
    Trader

    It depends on how different the barrel is.
     
  3. REVZEB

    REVZEB Grand High Pooh-Bah (7,686) Mar 28, 2013 Illinois
    BA4LYFE Society Pooh-Bah Trader

    Say more, I’m curious where you think we should draw the line
     
  4. REVZEB

    REVZEB Grand High Pooh-Bah (7,686) Mar 28, 2013 Illinois
    BA4LYFE Society Pooh-Bah Trader

    Other examples I have come across
    1. For some beers different blends of barrels are listed as separate entries where some are not. This is most common with vintages. If we can review the same beer more than once that might fix this problem
    2. Some lambic, gueuze, and Flanders reds that come from different barrels are listed as different beers (ie barrel 67 vs barrel 85) yet they are the same type of barrel and beer. Why different on those then, because of the spon factor?
     
  5. moodenba

    moodenba Pooh-Bah (2,502) Feb 2, 2015 New York
    Society Pooh-Bah

    Reviews are now limited to one per brand per BA. Some brands (not limited to barrel aged) have different recipes depending on either geography or time. Some brewers recycle old brands with new formulas (say an older West Coast IPA is delete, and the name is applied to a new juicy IPA (I encountered that with Barrier Money). Another case is when a label is applied to different beers in various locations. For example Lidl's Perlenbacher Pilsner in the US is German brewed, and pretty good. The same label is used in Britain for a British brewed product that seems to get poor reviews (was Lidl sourcing to be Brexit-ready?). Maybe it's sufficient to ask that reviewers give more details from the label. When I revise a review, I try to keep some of the older review available if I suspect a change in product.
     
  6. officerbill

    officerbill Pooh-Bah (2,228) Feb 9, 2019 New York
    Pooh-Bah Trader

    I voted Depends.
    beer aged in barrels from different brands of the same liquor tastes pretty much the same. Beer aged in barrels from different types of liquor tastes noticeably different.
     
  7. REVZEB

    REVZEB Grand High Pooh-Bah (7,686) Mar 28, 2013 Illinois
    BA4LYFE Society Pooh-Bah Trader

    I would think if brewers use the same name with different recipes it would be a different beer. See that with Transient's Nectar Beard Nectar. Each year the beer is completely different but the name is the same. Should be (and are) different entries.
    Now different locations are something I didn't think about. At that point I think that is a consistency issue on the brewer and doesn't warrant separate entries
     
  8. Apathetiq

    Apathetiq Pundit (766) Sep 10, 2012 Massachusetts
    Trader

    Now this is an interesting 'house keeping" question. If we list every vintage or batch on the breweries page, it could easily become a wall of offerings. But BA does serve as an archive of sorts, and if that is the brewers intention, sure?

    That being said, listing vintages/batches is a great work around for the one review per beer policy. And if it makes pages only marginally worse to look at, I'm ok with it. Have you seen some winery lists, now that's a spreadsheet.

    To expand, look at Trillium. It seems necessary to differentiate between the hops in Cutting Tiles, or fruit in Fated Farmer, and "batches" of Mettle Alloy because they have different goals for each offering. Everyone can squabble about batch variance in Affogato within the Affogato page, because the intention behind the beer is the same.

    Now take 3 Fonteinen and their Zenne y Frontera, the batch differentiation plays a huge role in what's exciting about the beer, but why does that framework not carry over to Armand & Gaston? It should, but it's too late now, the page looks silly, and isn't very user friendly.

    To answer your questions specifically:
    BCBS single barrels should be different beers because that's what the brewer intended, and it will encourage side by sides, and engaged tastings. In the meantime maybe we as reviewers also have an obligation to qualify what we are drinking, batch#, canning date, and not diverge from the norms established on the specific page; like adding the lone single barrel selection.
     
    BigIronH, Bitterbill, desint and 6 others like this.
  9. REVZEB

    REVZEB Grand High Pooh-Bah (7,686) Mar 28, 2013 Illinois
    BA4LYFE Society Pooh-Bah Trader

    See sometimes it does and sometimes it doesn't. I used the bcbs wheatwine example because I think the barrels are very different though both are bourbon but different brands.
    Or with the Boon Oude Geuze A L'anciennce, I taste and smell the different barrels though nuanced and subtle.
    Isn't noticing and reviewing these artful differences part of what beer advocacy is all about?
     
  10. REVZEB

    REVZEB Grand High Pooh-Bah (7,686) Mar 28, 2013 Illinois
    BA4LYFE Society Pooh-Bah Trader

    My feelings exactly. I'm just too type A to let it go! :joy:
     
    BigIronH likes this.
  11. nc41

    nc41 Initiate (0) Sep 25, 2008 North Carolina
    Trader

    Imo no, the volume is so low that Knob Creek, is Wild Turkey, is rye. The wetness of the barrels makes a bigger difference but I’m sure the brewers blend that out.
     
    DIM and officerbill like this.
  12. officerbill

    officerbill Pooh-Bah (2,228) Feb 9, 2019 New York
    Pooh-Bah Trader

    Yes, maybe my palate isn't sensitive enough to truly appreciate those subtle differences. :wink:

    I'm thinking that the reviewer could simply note the barrel in the review
    “this is the 2018 vintage aged in Wild Turkey barrels”
    ”reviewing the 2019 Old Granddad variant”
     
    REVZEB likes this.
  13. DIM

    DIM Grand Pooh-Bah (4,788) Sep 28, 2006 Pennsylvania
    BA4LYFE Society Pooh-Bah Trader

    Same spirit just different brand (heaven hill, willett, Elijah Craig etc.)= 1 listing

    Different spirit (port, rum, scotch etc.)=multiple listings

    imo
     
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  14. DIM

    DIM Grand Pooh-Bah (4,788) Sep 28, 2006 Pennsylvania
    BA4LYFE Society Pooh-Bah Trader

    I wholeheartedly agree.
     
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  15. nc41

    nc41 Initiate (0) Sep 25, 2008 North Carolina
    Trader

    For marketing purposes only.
     
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  16. nc41

    nc41 Initiate (0) Sep 25, 2008 North Carolina
    Trader

    Years ago Foothills In Winston Salem put Hoppyum into wet hot barrels, it was so dark it looked like an amber. Boozy as hell, tasted like a glass of beer 1/4 shot of bourbon, damn was that good shit. Tasted like an old fashioned boilermaker or depth charge. But the commercial stuff is so slightly influenced it's disappointing.
     
  17. Apathetiq

    Apathetiq Pundit (766) Sep 10, 2012 Massachusetts
    Trader

    But distilleries not only have different specifications for their barrels, but also have a wide range of products from NA statement to 12-18yrs. Everything from cooperage and oak sourcing, stave weathering, char levels, and warehouse location, matter a great deal to the brewer looking to source a barrel for oak impact. That is if they are so lucky to even have a choice.

    That "Eagle Rare" barrel is guaranteed to have held whisky for at least 10 years, "Buffalo Trace," well, rumored to be 7-9.
     
  18. nc41

    nc41 Initiate (0) Sep 25, 2008 North Carolina
    Trader

    The no age statement is about demand more than anything else, they still blend the batches together using whiskies like 6 to 12 yrs. The age statement is the youngest whiskey by law in that bottling, and likely mixed in with older whiskies to meet house standards. Money.
     
  19. Apathetiq

    Apathetiq Pundit (766) Sep 10, 2012 Massachusetts
    Trader

    But that's what I mean. If you have the opportunity to select a barrel that held bourbon for 4-8 years vs one that rested for 10+, they will be qualitatively different, and making note of the pedigree on a beer label is significant.
     
  20. REVZEB

    REVZEB Grand High Pooh-Bah (7,686) Mar 28, 2013 Illinois
    BA4LYFE Society Pooh-Bah Trader

    Around here our local liquor chain binnys has partnered with breweries to do “new variants” of beloved beers, but the only difference is the barrel used, something specially selected. In those beers I have tasted the difference, but perhaps that is me falling for a marketing ploy. I know Julio’s in Mass used to do the same thing when I lived in New England briefly. I have always put them in beer advocate as a separate entry because that’s how they were marketed (and there is usually a cost difference too) and I find taste and feel different, though I will admit usually subtly
     
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