What Exactly Is A 5.0 Beer Rating?

Talk Discussion in 'BeerAdvocate Talk' started by SierraNevallagash, Feb 19, 2021.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
Page 1 of 16
  1. SierraNevallagash

    SierraNevallagash Initiate (0) Sep 23, 2018 Maine
    Trader

    I try to put a lot of thought into my reviews and their corresponding scores. I think I have a decent grasp. A particular BA here likes to poke fun at me for "over-rating" beers, which always surprises me. I know other people who rarely rate below 4.5. My question is...

    What warrants a 5? My highest rated beer is something lile 4.68, and that was a stop-me-in-my-tracks, dear god this is the best "insert style" I've ever had beer. I often peruse reviews, and I'll see these 4.7-5.0 scores, with reviews like, "it's pretty good, not the best, but enjoyable" or, "I've had better, but it's still great", or even people pointing out genuine flaws, while still slapping a 4.9 rating on it. I don't normally equate 4.9 with "pretty good". "Pretty good" to me is like a 3.8. But that's me.

    Are people just handing out world-class scores to protect hype and value? Is anything under a 5 just not amazing to them? To me, a 4.5 is an insanely great beer, and a 5.0 is almost hard to imagine - let alone if I can point out flaws. Are some people afraid to deviate too much from the overall score? Surely that's a thing. I'd love to hear people's perspective on this, and what you think warrants these higher bracket scores.

    It's all so subjective, and there's no right or wrong rating - I just find the idea of all these 5s to be...interesting.
     
    #1 SierraNevallagash, Feb 19, 2021
    Ozzylizard, hoptheology, Harrison8 and 18 others like this.
  2. BBThunderbolt

    BBThunderbolt Grand High Pooh-Bah (7,846) Sep 24, 2007 Kiribati
    Pooh-Bah Trader

    Personally, a 5 is for a beer that I can't see being done any better for it's style. Perhaps equaled, with different features, but I just can't see the particular beer being better.

    For example: my all time favorite beer is Chimay White. I love it. I, personally, think La Fin du Monde is a better example of the style, and LFdM is one of only 2-3 5's I've ever given out. But, set both in front of me, and I'm drinking the Chimay first.
     
    #2 BBThunderbolt, Feb 19, 2021
    Last edited: Feb 19, 2021
    flat_lander, Ozzylizard, AlexIrigoyen and 17 others like this.
  3. Roguer

    Roguer Grand High Pooh-Bah (7,811) Mar 25, 2013 Connecticut
    Mod Team Society Pooh-Bah Trader

    Some people will say, "5.0 isn't achievable, because there's no such thing as perfection."

    For me, however, I go with the simple concept of: "I cannot imagine a way this aspect could be improved."

    That's at every level, too; there's no "5.0 beer" that earns 5.0 across the board. I rate every aspect independently. If I find it literally flawless, nothing off, and where I can't imagine it being improved in any way, then it's a 5.0. That doesn't rule out multiple beers reaching 5.0, either.

    I've had one 5.0 beer across the board over more than 3000 reviews, so I think that tack is working for me. :slight_smile:
     
    #3 Roguer, Feb 19, 2021
    Ozzylizard, DBosco, Billet and 27 others like this.
  4. Roguer

    Roguer Grand High Pooh-Bah (7,811) Mar 25, 2013 Connecticut
    Mod Team Society Pooh-Bah Trader


    Man, I'm the same. When I point out that my favorite beer isn't necessarily my most perfect beer, some people get very confused and argumentative. But a beer can be a perfect example of a style, but not necessarily what I want to drink every day.
     
    #4 Roguer, Feb 19, 2021
    flat_lander, Ozzylizard, IPAs_for_days_13 and 20 others like this.
  5. BBThunderbolt

    BBThunderbolt Grand High Pooh-Bah (7,846) Sep 24, 2007 Kiribati
    Pooh-Bah Trader

    Some things just push our personal buttons in certain ways that can't be topped. But, with some critical thinking, we can see that things we love aren't the best examples. I love a McDonalds QuarterPounder, but there is no way in hell it would ever make a top 100 burgers list. Not even 101.
     
    #5 BBThunderbolt, Feb 19, 2021
    ssascotth, Ozzylizard, cjgiant and 11 others like this.
  6. beergoot

    beergoot Grand High Pooh-Bah (9,310) Oct 11, 2010 Colorado
    Mod Team BA4LYFE Society Pooh-Bah Trader

    I may have had a few 5.0 beers rated back in the day...and because they did hit me between the eyes with their style attributes...

    And now I see an overall 5.0 rating as a mythical beast...something that may be out there but I just haven't experienced it yet...

    Perhaps I'm fudging things when I rate beers now, but a truly superior beer rates, at most, a 4.5 or, even more rare, 4.575 in any one category...why not higher???...good question...but then I don't have a good answer to 'why not a higher rating'...

    Perhaps I need to re-evaluate my rating scale, especially for 'Overall'. I guess I can't really articulate what an ultimate 5.0 would be anymore...I've had a few beers recently that seemed (to me) to warrant a 4.75 rating, but why I didn't pull the trigger and just say they were tops in that class or category does mystify me...
     
    #6 beergoot, Feb 19, 2021
    Boone757, Ozzylizard, cjgiant and 11 others like this.
  7. TheIPAHunter

    TheIPAHunter Grand High Pooh-Bah (6,026) Aug 12, 2007 California
    Mod Team Society Pooh-Bah Trader

    Ask John Kimmich.
     
    #7 TheIPAHunter, Feb 19, 2021
    JayORear, BuffaloBill12, GreenBayBA and 4 others like this.
  8. steveh

    steveh Grand Pooh-Bah (4,174) Oct 8, 2003 Illinois
    Society Pooh-Bah

    #8 steveh, Feb 19, 2021
    Ozzylizard, officerbill, GreenBayBA and 3 others like this.
  9. BBThunderbolt

    BBThunderbolt Grand High Pooh-Bah (7,846) Sep 24, 2007 Kiribati
    Pooh-Bah Trader

    I have lots of reviews where the individual aspects are all 3.0-3.25, and I give it a 3.5 for overall. Sometimes, the sum is greater than the total of its parts.
     
    #9 BBThunderbolt, Feb 20, 2021
    Ozzylizard, RedhawkPoke, skivtjerry and 8 others like this.
  10. SierraNevallagash

    SierraNevallagash Initiate (0) Sep 23, 2018 Maine
    Trader

    I like this. I don't think a 5.0 is impossible. I always said that if after years and years, I never managed to find a beer that topped my highest rated ones, maybe I'd go back and 5 it up. I just have to believe that there are certain attributes that can be dialed in, certain flaws that can be smoothed over, and there there's still a beer lurking out there, waiting for me to try and say, "holy shit, this is it!". Don't want to put all my eggs in one basket.

    I do think a 5 here and there is perfect acceptable. It's these strings of 5's with questionable "reviews" (at best) that make me think twice. I don't even acknowledge a 5 without a review. If I encountered a 5, I'd be praising it from the rooftops.
     
    #10 SierraNevallagash, Feb 20, 2021
    Ozzylizard, cjgiant, Whyteboar and 5 others like this.
  11. SierraNevallagash

    SierraNevallagash Initiate (0) Sep 23, 2018 Maine
    Trader

    100%. Anyone would notice I'm a little quirky with my "overall" box. Sometimes it differs drastically from the other traits. The nose or feel may be off, but it could still be a great overall example of the style, so I tend to be pretty flexible with my overall. @beergoot
     
    #11 SierraNevallagash, Feb 20, 2021
    Ozzylizard, cjgiant, beergoot and 3 others like this.
  12. Roguer

    Roguer Grand High Pooh-Bah (7,811) Mar 25, 2013 Connecticut
    Mod Team Society Pooh-Bah Trader

    100%. Straight 5.0s without a review is, at absolute best, rather questionable (and fits with Todd's guide).



    Money right there. No reply in this thread will top that.
     
    #12 Roguer, Feb 20, 2021
    Ozzylizard, JayORear, Whyteboar and 4 others like this.
  13. elNopalero

    elNopalero Grand Pooh-Bah (5,822) Oct 14, 2009 Michigan
    Pooh-Bah Trader

    This thread has prompted me to go and see just how many 5s I’ve rated. ... more than I had expected, and quite a few from when I started out reviewing that I might change if I revisited them today. But here’s the thing—these were all what I thought were 5s at the time. And some (most?) I’d stand by today.

    (I do think Death & Taxes is the epitome of its style, and it’s also a beer I love. Some of the others I rated in 2012, 2013, not so much...)
     
    #13 elNopalero, Feb 20, 2021
    Ozzylizard, DanfromVan, cjgiant and 5 others like this.
  14. moodenba

    moodenba Pooh-Bah (2,502) Feb 2, 2015 New York
    Society Pooh-Bah

    I guess I'm old and jaded. My absolute favorite for years years was Blue Point ESB.I only gave it a 4.25, which was actually just under its average rating. Actually I prefer beers that aren't extreme, so maybe my favorites shouldn't get a 5.0. After all I'm reviewing for others, not exclusively for myself.
     
    #14 moodenba, Feb 20, 2021
    Ozzylizard and GreenBayBA like this.
  15. SierraNevallagash

    SierraNevallagash Initiate (0) Sep 23, 2018 Maine
    Trader

    This seems to be a common theme. I know that when I first started reviewing, I was definitely too generous. And that makes sense - you're naive, new to the world of craft beer, and things seem amazing to you - little do you know just how flawed they might be, or how good they can be. A lot of people i talk yo admit to over-rating when they first started out.

    A 4.5 back then for me would probably be a 4.1 now. I've fixed a lot, but I'm sure we all have some overly generous early reviews.
     
    #15 SierraNevallagash, Feb 20, 2021
    Ozzylizard, GreenBayBA, Steve_Studnuts and 2 others like this.
  16. Jack_14

    Jack_14 Pooh-Bah (1,682) Nov 2, 2019 Italy
    Pooh-Bah Trader

    Given that "the archive" is something useful to oneself and to others, in my opinion it is right not to make hasty or forced ratings.
    In addition to being disinterested, of course.
    Without forgetting that in any case there is the possibility of reconsidering the ratings, perhaps drinking again the beer reviewed some time before.
    Me for every beer I rate I write something (sometimes more, sometimes less) about the description of beer in my senses.
    Very rarely in the reviews I refer to my personal tastes, I limit myself to describing what beer gives me.
    Which is what I find useful when I'm looking for information on a beer.
    Under the "FEEL" item, obviously it is the fully subjective one and it deviates from the criteria I use to assign a rating to the other items.
    That said, I also think that the beers that deserve 5.0 are very few, for the value I give to such a rating.
    Therefore... in my opinion, writing two lines below the ratings is definitely always useful in order to make the reader frame the criteria you used.


    PS.
    Of the few beers that I have so far included in the archive, for now, the highest grade ever is a 4.83 to the Cuvée Armand & Gaston Honing (Assemblage n.57 - 2017/2018 Season)
     
    #16 Jack_14, Feb 20, 2021
    Ozzylizard, GreenBayBA and unlikelyspiderperson like this.
  17. bret27

    bret27 Grand Pooh-Bah (3,064) Mar 10, 2009 California
    Pooh-Bah Trader

    I think everyone has a slightly different take on ratings. That’s part of the fun though. If that wasn’t allowed, only a few beer judge certified people would be allowed to do it.
    The hype evens out over time.
    I’ve never given a 5. Very close, but I adhere to...
    1. Rating to style guidelines
    2. Rating per the ba setup. Amazing beer but only looks 4.75/5? Then it’s not a perfect 5. It should be nearly impossible for all 5’s theoretically
     
    #17 bret27, Feb 20, 2021
    Ozzylizard, beergoot, officerbill and 4 others like this.
  18. BBThunderbolt

    BBThunderbolt Grand High Pooh-Bah (7,846) Sep 24, 2007 Kiribati
    Pooh-Bah Trader

    And, each aspect is viewed in a vacuum. The body has nothing to do with the looks. Plenty of folks fixate on taste alone, and give everything else high scores to not bring it down. Too bad, if it's ugly, ding it. If it smells great, but sticks to your palate like glue, ding it.
     
    #18 BBThunderbolt, Feb 20, 2021
    Ozzylizard, beergoot, GreenBayBA and 4 others like this.
  19. ZebulonXZogg

    ZebulonXZogg Grand Pooh-Bah (3,142) May 5, 2015 Illinois
    Pooh-Bah Trader

    There is no "5.0" beer
    There is no "10" woman.
    In this world there is always room for improvement, except in me of course, but you all knew that...
     
    #19 ZebulonXZogg, Feb 20, 2021
    Ozzylizard, spersichilli, beergoot and 2 others like this.
  20. zeff80

    zeff80 Grand High Pooh-Bah (8,425) Feb 6, 2006 Missouri
    Pooh-Bah

    I haven't given a 5.0 after 9000+ reviews. I feel like if I ever find a 5.0 the the quest is over. No more need to search.

    So I'll never give a 5.0 so that I don't stop searching.
     
    #20 zeff80, Feb 20, 2021
    Ozzylizard, BigIronH, DBosco and 13 others like this.
Page 1 of 16
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.