CO2 sources to choose from

I’m don’t believe the Homebrew store

 

https://www.themodernbrewhouse.com/carbon-dioxide-purity/

 

https://www.brewersassociation.org/...rage grade,and other sensory active molecules.

 

From the above Brewers Association link (with emphasis in bold by me):

“Brewers may first become aware of a CO2 supply or quality shift through sensory panel results, or in extreme cases, based on customer feedback. In the U.S., beverage grade CO2 will be at least 99.90% pure; many other molecules can comprise the other 0.10%, including water, oxygen, and hydrocarbons such as benzene, acetaldehyde, and other sensory active molecules. To put that into perspective, 0.10% equates to 1,000 parts per million, which is 1-4 orders of magnitude higher concentration than many flavor-active hop components. So understanding your CO2 supply, source, and purity is important for ensuring the quality of your beer brands.”

Hmm?

Cheers!

 

Your LHBS supplier is full of shit. Have them contact me and I'll tell them myself. They are full of shit. They don't do anything except get a bulk supply of CO2 and resell it, they don't test it, they do not sell a CO2 that is any different than anyone else. And they sure as hell have not brewed with that inferior CO2 they are talking about. Really, who are these people suffering with sub standard CO2 gas? Why haven't we ever heard of this problem, ever, in our world?

Bulk CO2 gas comes in 2 flavors. Food Grade and Medical Grade. As you might guess food grade is suitable for food applications and medical grade is, well, medical.

Food Grade is 99.90% pure CO2. It is perfectly acceptable for brewers. You do not need medical grade gas. If you are buying your CO2 from a national supplier you are getting certified food grade CO2. If you are buying it from a homebrew supply, they are getting it from a bulk supplier, and that too is certified food grade.

If you want to be that guy and demand proof of the supply purity, the desk at AirGas or PraxAir will have it. The manufacture of CO2 is not at all difficult or mysterious. Basically, have faith that your gas supply is pure. If it were not genuine there would be problems all over your area, multiple brewers, who would be having tremendous problems. Could it happen? Sure. But it doesn't.

Food Grade CO2 is not broken and it doesn't need to be fixed. I am particularly annoyed at people who claim you have a problem that doesn't exist and just happen to have a monetary interest in getting your attention to solve that problem. Could be a magic CO2 filter you don't need or something else, I don't know. Very suspicious.

Cheers

 

This is true but deserves some further explanation.
Human sensory ability is not equal across all compounds. Just because we have a very low threshold for the detection of sulphur (down to 0.1 ppm - NIH) does not mean we can detect benzene equally (67 ppm - Am. Ind. Hygiene Assoc.) Benzene is a known carcinogen, sulphur is ubiquitous.

And so on.
It is important to recognize that industry has the ability to detect well into the ppb and now pptrillion fraction but that does not mean it is relevant. I would not want any amount of benzene in anything I put in my body, but ppb of an relatively inert chem is not much concern. And let's be honest, if that 1 ppb of chemical is distressing then that 7.0% abv must be horrific!
Cheers

 

Hrmm, I'm no math wiz, but that seems more than 2.

 

Yes, health is a concern.

But there is also the sensory aspects as well: "0.10% equates to 1,000 parts per million" which can likely be a source of providing off-flavors to the beer. The value of 1,000 parts per million is HUGE here.

Cheers!

 

No doubt.
Food Grade CO2 is at a minimum 99.90% pure CO2. And potentially 0.01% something else, which could be a lot. Or could be nothing. It is mostly nothing, at least tif it is something it is not having any effect on our beer. Not that you or I can tell.
Cheers

 

You're no math wizard but that is besides the point. The list you posted is not bulk CO2. Stop by Air Gas and pick up a 5 pound cylinder of "Laser Pure" CO2 gas and report back to us.

I guess I'll bite. You're the expert so what grade of CO2 gas should we be using that we are not using if not Food Grade? And explain how to get it for homebrewing. Thanks.

 

That pesky math again.

 

You're the best man, and it's a true statement too. But it doesn't change the fact that Food Grade CO2 is the only practical choice for brewers. Feel free to disagree.

 

Ooh ad-homimen attacks, excellent, I'm getting somewhere.
What's Bulk, to you?

No need for me to do that I have a nitrogen generator, and I use fermentation co2 for carbonation.

Post #3 of this thread.

 

Alright back on track...Since I rarely see anything resembling actual data, I went down and tested my 2 gases I have here on one of my regular DO meters, I apologize it only has 10 PPB resolution. The traces meter (1 PPB resolution) is currently being used.

N2 out of the generator:
Spec says 99.99999% pure


Checks out

Then I went and tested a bottle of "beverage grade" co2 I have laying around.


So thats .09ppm, (90PPB) of o2 not necessarily counting the "other" in this gas. That o2 and "other" will go directly into your beer, good, bad or indifferently.

I will add that my "beverage grade" co2 is sourced from the massive ethanol plants around here and is abnormally LOW in DO. I know this by asking for the COA. This will most likely not be the case in most places and the COA is the only way to know.

 

From the Brewers Association article:

"Brewers may first become aware of a CO2 supply or quality shift through sensory panel results..."

Well, I would be willing to volunteer to be part of the sensory panel.

Cheers!

 

Jamil (@jzainasheff), do you do something to 'check out' the CO2 you use to carbonate your beers? If so, what do you do?

Cheers!

 

In a pinch, I just disconnect the CO2 tank from the high pressure regulator and blow really, really hard into line, covering it with my thumb to take an occasional breath. Really, really hard! If I'm not feeling sick that day, then it's medical grade. Otherwise, it's food grade.

When I'm not in a hurry, I go to a local LHBS that has a "CO2 club". As I recall, I paid a one time $5 membership fee which gets me a 20 lb swap for $25 whenever I need it. A bit cheaper than the welding supply I was buying it from, and cheap enough for 20 lb that I don't worry about whether I can get it cheaper elsewhere, though I suspect I can.

 

I don't disagree in the slightest. However it still doesn't change what it is, what it contains, or what it does. In fact thats AWLAYS been all my points. Just because "it is" doesn't mean it's the easiest or best.

 

Most of the difference between "food grade", "medical grade", "high purity", ultra high purity" or anything else a vendor comes up with is just how well they clean and purge the tanks before filling. It all comes from the same bulk source as various sources are blended in large operations. For medical and UHP grades they will do some purity testing and give you the results, but 99.99% of the time the generic product is the same stuff, just without a certificate. The UHP helium I use at work is the same stuff used to inflate balloons except that Airgas might have purged the tank better.