What’s the Difference? Share your Side-by-Side (2021)

Once they sold I believe that was that for Shane on BA. I liked him and thought he was genuine, but that's the kind of thing that makes you think twice.

My recollection of The Crisp does date back to when they were independent, so there could have been changes in the meantime.

 

Sold? I didn’t know that either

 

Sixpoint (Shane Welch) was notorious for constantly tweaking/changing the recipes of the Sixpoint beers. He viewed this as CPI (Continuous Process Improvement). There was a part of me that thought his desire for CPI was a good thing but I couldn’t shake the feeling when I purchased a six-pack of Sixpoint beer: I wonder what it will taste like this time. When it comes to a specific brand I do appreciate consistency.

How Sixpoint is operating today under the ABV (Artisanal Beverage Ventures) ownership I am unsure. I do know that their beers are being produced at the Victory brewery(s).

Cheers!

@Urk1127

 

His most recent handle was SCW but as @FBarber mentioned it has been over 2 years since he has been on BA.

Cheers!

 

Mason Jar out of Fuquay Varina dry hops their Pils with Mosaic, it’s a really nice beer though, but obviously much different than the classic German Hop combos.

 

The dry-hopping with American hops goes back at least to the recipe change sometime around 2014 (well before the ownership change). I couldn't tell you if this was part off the recipe before that or if it is even still a part of the recipe now, but the last time I had the beer (I don't know... maybe 3 years ago or something), it still drank like a pilsner crossed with an APA to me.

@TongoRad - assuming you haven't had this beer in a blind side-by-side before, it's remarkable how much that framework impacts one's impression of a beer - sometimes "reading" a beer in a drastically different way than when had alone. Differences between beers can pop in a dramatic way that might otherwise get more ironed out when had independently. I know I'm preaching to the choir though.

 

An unusual point of view when it comes to flagship beers, most brewers strive for consistency beyond all doubt. I wouldn’t like picking up a beer I’ve had before and trying to guess if it’s good or bad, wondering what’s up with this batch. There’s room to experiment like FW does with Luponic, but they don’t want to pick up a Union Jack and it’s a different beer than the last time.

 

Yes, Shane Welch was a bit 'different' in this regard and from my readings (and most recent purchase) John Kimmich (The Alchemist) feels that consistency is not a 'driver' for how he chooses to brew his beers (e.g., Heady Topper).

Dale, FWIW I agree 100% with you here. When I purchase beer brand X, as a consumer I have an expectation/preference for that beer being a consistent product.

As a 'reminder' I started my Heady Topper thread a couple of months ago to discuss this specific topic:

https://www.beeradvocate.com/commun...r-your-heady-topper-to-be-catty-weedy.652987/

Cheers!

 

Hard to say a renowned brewer is wrong, but I just have a different opinion in regards to consistency. It’s probably the bane of some brewers because components do change and they’re not always consistent, imo it might sound like a built in excuse for the variance, not that it is of course. That’s where rotating a beers dynamics might allow for experimentation, like Luponic and that’s fine, but flagships should be as dependable as humanly possible. Easier with AALs imo although I know squat about brewing, but this Moosehead I’m drinking I’m not expecting any hops or malt influences that I’d notice, it’s just a cold beer nothing more was expected.

 

BTW I’m drinking the Moose out of the bottle and it tastes a bit funny, I had two yesterday and didn’t notice anything. It tastes a bit funny on the finish, about a quarter of the way to Rolling Rockish, but not to that degree which I hate. Could be me.

 

Yeah, that would be DMS and probably trace amounts. Rolling Rock has it at much higher levels; and since the topic is side by sides, if you ever do one with Rolling Rock vs. something cleaner (like Stella) it becomes that much easier to pick out.

 

It is possible to produce consistent beer with varying products; that is where the skill of the brewer comes into play.

There is a great discussion on pages 239 – 240 of the book For the Love of Hops by Stan Hieronymus where the headbrewer of Bear Republic (Richard Norgrove) mentions how he makes a consistent beer of Racer 5 IPA given that hops vary with the location they are grown, the particular year’s crop, and other variables. His last quote is revealing: “So, how do I make Racer taste the same when hops change? That’s what makes it craft.”

It just so happens that John Kimmich has a differing 'philosophy' than Richard Norgrove and chooses to vary the flavor profile when he gets the chance to source Simcoe hops which have a BIG weedy and/or catty aspect to them.

I personally prefer the Richard Norgrove approach and as beer drinkers we are the end consumer so we all get to choose here. As the old saying goes: the customer is always right!

Cheers!

 

If you ever do manage to snag a single out of curiosity let me know what you think. If it was maybe 50/50 Pilsner to APA in the past, I'd say that the one I had last night was more like 25/75 and it sure seems like there has been some recipe drift.

But you are also correct that if I drank some independently who knows if that perception would have changed. I did have a couple more last night after the tasting but I think that the damage was already done and they weren't coming across as a Pilsner then either.

 

Dale, my last drinking experience with Moosehead was a draft pint at the Canadian Legion lodge in Baddeck, NS (2019). I am both very sensitive and knowledgeable about DMS since in my younger days I drank a lot of Rolling Rock (I wouldn't even want to venture a guess in how many barrels I drank of that beer). FWIW I personally did not pick up any DMS in that beer.

For my palate perceptible levels of DMS are immediately evident to me on the nose: an aroma of creamed corn for me. Below is a related story I posted in a previous thread:

“I attended a Sensory & Flavor Training presentation at the 2015 National Homebrewers Conference and in that presentation they gave you a base beer plus four others of that beer doctored with off-flavors: DMS, Diacetyl, Metallic and Chlorophenols. I could only take small sips of the beers with Diacetyl, Metallic and Chlorophenols because they were awful for my palate. I actually finished the DMS beer since it was not objectionable to me. I suppose all of the Rolling Rock beer I drank ‘back in the day’ got me accustomed to this alleged off-flavor.”

Cheers!

 

Yeah, once a 'seed gets planted' it is hard to 'unknow' it.

Last year I brewed an IPA which featured Sabro hops and as it was dry hopping I discussed this batch with a commercial brewer. He related to me that he was not a fan of Sabro hops since they tasted like Pina Colada to him (combination of coconut and pineapple juice). Damn! With this 'seed' firmly implanted in my head all that I could think of when drinking this batch of beer was "Pina Colada". My wife absolutely loved this batch and frankly I kinda enjoyed it too but the "Pina Colada" thing was indeed an 'issue' for me.

I will not be re-brewing with Sabro hops again. And when brewing with a new (to me) hop variety I will not be discussing that batch with other brewers so that I can have an 'unencumbered' mind when drinking those beers.

Blind taste testing like they do at the GABF is the 'best' way to evaluate/appreciate beer.

Cheers!

 

Okay... I gotta ask - how'd you pull off a blind tasting by yourself?!?

I have some ideas, but in your specific case, there are 3 different packaging styles and that kills most of what I can think up.

Some of which includes actual blindfolds I use for...

never mind.

 

The only beer I've had with that hop was Tiki Breeze sent to me by @BBThunderbolt . The brewer in that case decided to go 'all in' with that flavor profile and also conditioned it on coconut, so I'd be hard pressed to say where the hops ended and the flavoring started, but it definitely was the focal point of the beer.

 

Because folks like Moar!

Cheers!

 

I put both number tags on the same side of the glass and then turn them away from me and do a three card monty style mix up. Then I can pour each beer and place the number tag on the side facing away from me. Those containers get placed off to the side, I do another three card monty mix, and finally turn the glasses around and place them in order.

It also helps to do all that out of the side of your field of vision because major color differences can stay in the back of your mind- don't stare at the sun! . In this case the bar area was dark enough that the color wasn't a red flag for me while I was pouring.

But doing it this way doesn't really allow for doing the cuvee blend because there would be three beers but 4 glasses.