Does cellaring beers actually improve it?

But what if the rear label says something like this:

I guess, given that the above is from a 1994 vintage bottle, one could say that "at least 25 years" would make 2019 its "Best By" date? Aw, damn, I missed it! 2 years over the line!

 

Obviously the label says that, but it isnt accurate. Check w Corey King or Mike Saboe and see if they think you should age their stouts at least 25 years for optimal flavor.

 

Just because you can cellar some beer to good effect doesn't mean you can cellar all beer to good effect. Just because one brewer says to drink their beer fresh doesn't mean that all beer must be drunk fresh. Seems there's a long history of humans intentionally aging packaged beer and being delighted with the results

 

Human beings can do what they want. And i dont care if you age your beer or not. Or if ancient humans aged their beer. You can age all your beers if you choose. Its yours to do so.

As you might steer clear of aging hoppy beers as it deteriorates flavor, the precise thing is happening w a stout or any other style. You are deteriorating flavor and allowing oxidation to occur. (Some people do like when the flavors are less pronounced and muddled).

If you prefer to do both, do it. Its your palate and your beer.
The OP asked if aging improves a beer. It doesnt, it deteriorates it without much reasonable debate. It doesnt enhance any qualities which would be the synonym of improve. Improve/enhance. But one may prefer the deteriorated version and thus from Obi Wan's certain point of view they could be right...in regards to themself.

"Falling off" is a common descriptor of flavor as result of aging beer. If you prefer all your flavors to have fallen off and oxidize - age away. Its yours.

 

And what about the back label on Gouden Carolus Classic Anno 1958:
"Beer of 19° b unparalleled!
If aged STANDING, it is to be uncorked STANDING and poured gently in a chalice IN ONE GO. If aged LYING DOWN, it is to be uncorked LYING DOWN without twisting the bottle.
STORAGE LIFE IS UNLIMITED" (free translation)
This beer was brewed in 1958 for the World Expo in Brussels in that year and it was re-brewed in 2008. EU legislation stipulates nowadays a Best Before Date for beers below 10%.
This brew is 13 yrs old, meanwhile, and I can assure you: it is not passed its prime (and it never will be).

 

Lambique and those that can be bottle conditioned seeking pedio and brett work could be arguably enhanced w time.

 

Your palate might say this. Mine doesn't. Nor would I ever agree that aging every beer causes the flavor to "deteriorate".

There are absolutely flavors that fade & other flavors that come forward when a beer is aged. For me, cherry comes forward in Expedition Stout as it ages & that is not what I want to taste in a stout, so I drink it fresh when I feel it's still delicious. The bourbon goodness in The Abyss fades slowly with time. That's a change, not deterioration.

Absolutes are rarely accurate & that is the case here. Substitute 'change' for 'deterioration' & you'd be dead on - all aged beers change (some more than others). To objectively claim that every aged beer fades, muddles, deteriorates....it's simply not true.

 

Whether or not you like it or prefer it, does not change the fact that the compounds are indeed deteriorating.

You are arguing a matter of your tastebuds versus scientific reality. In another way to view, you like your cars rusty. You are allowed, and i could care less if you do. But that is no argument of what is scientifically happening. The flavors are deteriorating.
Which causes the profile to change, sure. That new profile improves the taste in your opinion? Thats up to you.

I can in no credible way argue that you dont prefer your cars rusty. Nor do i even slightly care to. But i can certainly argue the degrading of compounds and process that got you there.

 

But you already ID'd lambic, and those as well as other living beer will have some compounds that degrade over time while others are newly created over time. That's just the scientific reality.

"All beer is degraded over time" is a bizarre hill to die on but you do you

 

I have found genuinely trying to be helpful in 2021 online is moot and a colossal waste of time.
Everyone is an expert. Must be nice.

With lambiques indeed, the bacteria and yeast will create new compounds which can be favorable. While the other components degrade and oxidize.

If you prefer to argue needlessly, ill let you do so in your mental echo chamber and on your own time.
I have two masters in a related field, have been utilized as an expert in dozens of podcasts regarding brewing, beer, and the business of beer, have collaborated on 4 books, own and operate a successful brewery that youve had and rated highly according to your own ratings, have collaborated with some of the worlds best breweries, have some titles myself considered national standouts, and went ahead and completed the ciccerone certification. But what do i know? I default to you, spiderperson.
I do appreciate the lesson learned on whether its useful to attempt to be genuinely helpful in the internet age.

 

I have a degree in Journalism & English. I am an author with more than 40 short stories & articles published. I was regularly consulted by officers at a Fortune 500 company to proof & improve their communications to a wide audience. I declare that your semantic argument (now we're on my turf) is argumentative.

The well-respected @jesskidden posted the following:

Instead of addressing this statement another brewer put straight on their bottle you dismissed it out of hand. Because obviously your experience has told you that this brewer doesn't know how this/her own brew is going to age:

I mean, wow.

You have qualifications. You also seem to have a rock-settled & pure view of aging that directly contradicts other brewers who put aging parameters on their labels (& the above example isn't the only one). You can come back with "but science", sure, & provide us with a technical definition of deterioration. But the fact remains that you are high-handedly dismissing the opinions of other brewers about their own beers.

For the record I have two rusty cars in my driveway. Both belong to my daughters.

 

Im not. That beer was brewed in like 1945 or something according to poster. It will not improve in 25 years time. The labeling requirements would have been quite lax comparatively and the claim is fantastical. I could list the chemical process although difficult with my keyboard characters and constraints or in layman's terms, but i really dont care to. I thought even the inexperienced would be able to wrap their mind around compounds degrading over 25 yrs versus synthesis. You win.

Also. I think you missed the word 'last, on the label as did the person that posted it. It will last for 25years. That is true. The label does not state it will improve for 25 years.

Super waste of time and ill make it a future ongoing practice to not offer any opinions. Its pointless and only wastes my day. (You make fine and educated points btw). Well done on your part.

But for the record, Spiderperson should be crowned grand champion of the internet today. He/she won the internet. Today.

Deteroration begins as soon as the beer is born. Bottled beer begins being exposed to O2 the moment they are bottled. I would encourage you to seek a renown brewer that suggests you sit on their beer for 25 years for it to reach max flavor.
(Lambic aging is often viewed a favorable..but oxidation is occurring nonetheless).

 

The term is degradation whether you believe it or not. The compounds are degrading whether you like it or not. Or prefer the tasted of the degraded compounds. I can not argue what you prefer, but only what is occuring.

You are welcome to believe beer exposed to O2 over 25 years synthesizes and improves the chemical compounds. That O2 is a beer's friend. And that brewers believe this too en masse. It makes no difference at all to me. I am formally withdrawing from reading and responding to any further posts.

 

[QUOTE="Brian29, post: 7219179, member: 764283"
And that brewers believe this too en masse.
[/QUOTE]

Umm, no they don't and nobody suggested that.

 

Any non-believer in aged beer is kindly invited to my humble beer table on which aged beer itself will convince you.

 

You've got a strange definition of helpful. I'm sorry that my disagreement with your absolute view against any beer benefitting from any age was so upsetting. Thanks for the good beer though, I hope its clearly dated and labeled to let me know that its meant to be drunk fresh.

Good luck on your future brewing endeavors.

 

Golly Mister! You sure do know a lot of stuff about beer!
Gee whiz, what's it like to be all educated and knowing stuff from big Universities and stuff like that? Books? Wowee! You sure got me convinced fella. Must be somethin' studying in the big city and all I tell ya.

Hint:
If you need to provide your credentials to defend your opinion on the internet, you probably don't fully grasp the debate. You might assume you're the smartest guy in the room.

You might even think that if someone offers that beer changes as it ages, and sometimes but infrequently for the better, that person is challenging your intellect.

Cool it down sport.

 

I don't think the question should be does aging a beer make it better or not. It's clearly a subjective question and dependent as well on the style. Its the same as the debate regarding whether a beer (generally hoppy IPA's) is better the day after canning or is it better a few weeks out after its settled a bit. You have people on both sides of the debate and quite frankly they are both right because its better to them personally.

I'd venture that most people cellaring beer enjoy it for more reasons than just the taste. There are elements of collecting. For yearly releases there's drinking the same beer from multiple years to compare. Drinking a beer that's no longer available can be an enjoyable feeling. When a beer is no longer produced its nice to know you still have it available years later. There's also some enjoyment in being able to share these beers with friends on special occasions.

Now all that being said a month or two back I finished off the last of my cellar beers. I don't plan on having any beer for more than a year any longer (at least on purpose). I think the oldest I had was from 2016. For me over the years I've never found a beer I liked better than within a year. Some beers certainly are just as good or nearly as good within 1-2 years but for the most part they've lost more than they gained when sitting for too long. While I liked being able to drink a beer that was no longer being brewed I found I would have enjoyed it more when it was fresher (Founders Imperial Stout for instance, though they did release it again recently). I prefer buying a beer to enjoy now (or soon) more than collecting and cellaring them. It was an interesting experiment for me to play with cellaring for the past 5 years or so but in the end its not for me. Regardless don't go into cellaring if you expect better beer, you'll be sadly disappointed. I wasn't disappointed but it did give me a new perspective on just enjoying the beer for what it is at that moment.

 

Send me some plane tickets...

 

I have been ageing beers for around 20 years now, in that time I have found the following to be consistent:



- Hop driven beers take on completely different characters. Read my progressive reviews on Ten20 Commemorative Ale. By and large I do not recommend Hop Driven beers for ageing.

- Beers with wax seals definitely age better especially in the area of carbonation.

- Stouts – Barrel aged stouts generally age better than straight imperial stouts.

- Geuze beers definitely mellow out and lose oak character over time and become very well rounded. I recently drank a Cantillon Lambic Bio aged for 15 years against a fresh one and they were very different. The possibilities here are endless

- Lambic fruits. Basically they just lose their fruit flavour as time goes on so these are best drunk fresh

- Quads – Achel extra is just awesome for ageing, Westvleteren 8 and 12 are able to be aged > 10 years. I have drank a Westvleteren from 1983 and was very good indeed. Also had the Ref Cap which was 15 years old at the time of drinking and was very good.

- Orval is very good for ageing and takes on Brettanomyces flavours over time.

- I can’t speak for Barley wines as I have only aged a couple and haven’t tried them yet.



Hope this helps