Over the Rainbow? Why Queer Beer Is Important

Can you expand upon that? How is it a social agenda?

 

Please tell me how this is doublethink. I said the second quote because I knew this thread would be filled with bigots

 

By pushing articles about a very niche group of people or beliefs. Any article in the world could be posted, however people select specific articles they want to share and advance. Its not a balanced exchange of ideas, it’s read this article and if you say something I don’t like I will remove your post.

 

There’s a bigot behind every door, kinda like McCarthy, he saw Commies everywhere too. Labeling people you don’t know is bad business based off this thread. My opinion there, now Todd who’s getting hate mail I’m sure has a better idea. It’s sad, but bigots come in all sizes, shapes and colors, it’s not exclusive to anyone.

 

What is your definition of a bigot? Just curious.

 

If this horse has a will it should have a no resuscitation clause

 

I disagree that anyone's "pushing an article." They highlighted an issue that is important to them, that doesn't mean there's any force in the equation. I also disagree that people are being overly censored in this thread. Todd has repeatedly clarified that he only deleted stuff that violated the terms of service. But, regardless of those differences in opinion, I'm still confused...if it's a balanced exchange of ideas you seek then wouldn't you want to see more advertising that centers around the LGBTQ+ community, considering most advertising centers around cis gender and straight individuals? Isn't this article and thread a step in the direction of balancing things?

 

How can I express my ideas in a balanced way without being shouted down as a bigot or being anti gay? Anyone who expressed opposition to the idea of the article was labeled right away. The first amendment doesn’t protect nice speech, it protects debatable or controversial speech. And when my speech might be described as such to others and I am pegged as a bigot or anti gay, that’s a one sided argument. One sided arguments push agendas be definition.

 

Anyone who shows a blatant intolerance to people unlike them

 

So when any group yells at me for not agreeing with them and shouts me down and says I’m anti gay, they are being intolerant of me. So by that definition, those people are bigots as well.

Glad we agree.

 

To main tolerance, we must not tolerate intolerance

 

You’re correct, I should not tolerate the intolerance of the left and back down when they shout slurs at me.

 

Karl Popper decades ago, in the wake of the horrors of fascism, had a reasonable take. A tolerant society (or forum in this case?) should allow rational discussion to occur, even if that means intolerant groups or persons express some pretty bad opinions. HOWEVER he made the case for limits. Namely, if the intolerant stance is irrational and a threat to society (or certain groups, in this case let's say LGBQT) we shouldn't necessarily allow it. I'd say there's no reason to take issue with LGBTQ people, or their desire to make spaces for themselves in craft beer or anywhere else. There's no need to argue with someone who is in some way bothered by LGBTQ expression on a forum post, a bar, a brewery, wherever. There is no good argument. To engage with homophobia etc. isn't likely to change minds, but allow a forum for people to express lousy views about trans people etc. It makes it seem like a meaningful stance with value, and it sucks the oxygen out of the room.
Our country has huge issues which are reflected in the makeup of the people you see (or don't) in the craft beer world. Don't like it? Too bad. It's not a debate at this point. It just is. Instead of having to hear people whine about "I don't want to hear about this" or "trans people are have an agenda to indoctrinate children and give them hormone blockers" we should be talking about how to support the LGBTQ community in craft beer and make it a welcoming place.
Let's face it, a bunch of straight white guys on this board can talk about how they don't care about who makes their beer, or color blindness or whatever but that's the point... you (straight white guy) are the default and have that luxury to not think about any inequities, unconscious bias, etc.
Plus I want to see more people, if they're drinking anyway, to have a craft beer and not a seltzer! I say roll out the red carpet for all kinds of marginalized groups (paid internships, events, highlighting those already active in the community, etc.).
I'd rather they buy a well made craft pilsner than another seltzer. Let's retake that shelf space.

 

I disagree. Why should I as a free person have to support any community. Why is this community so special? It’s my personal freedom to do as I choose as it is anyone else’s, and to be demonized for exercising my personal rights is not acceptable.

 

Then don't. Society has the ability to come to a consensus that your view isn't a positive good. I know people that have lost friends by espousing Trumpian conspiracy and coded racism. They were in essence exorcised from their circle. There are numerous stories of people basically not speaking with certain family members because of their views. That's life. You can go to other places and spaces and find people threatened by someone non gender conforming/LGBTQ, etc. all agreeing that there's a leftist conspiracy to indoctrinate your children into supporting the lifestyle and decisions of those on the LGBTQ community. But that doesn't have to be a certain beer forum, your coworkers, or whoever you believe is constantly yelling at you. If the people that make up this forum believe that acknowledging LGTBQ people and their place and roles in beer brewing and culture is not a matter of debate but actually fundamentally important, then it's reasonable that they may decide that such debate over supporting these groups is dehumanizing. This means some posts may get deleted, and other less inflammatory ones with contrarian views knocked down by multiple other posters. Now if you want to discuss how best to acknowledge and integrate and support the LGBTQ community in beer culture and brewing, that's an actual discussion. Because there is room to disagree about the best approach. But to come to comment about how you shouldn't have to support them and be told your views are retrograde really isn't a point to debate or discuss.

 

So make your case. I would like to discuss the topic with you. Pretty sure the mods are going to let it stay up so long as you're not engaging in hate speech.

 

You're very close here. See, anti trans hate is mainstream republican. It's all over the normal airwaves and the like frequented by Republicans. That's why it's not a simple both sides argument. That's why he's getting the emails. It's very common. Look at the states passing anti trans legislation. It's a bunch! A few looters aren't driving liberal thought in this country or the way media and politicians operate. White supremacists and anti LGBTQ types are driving mainstream Republican talking points and legislation. Inevitably that means a lot of angry fairly moderate conservatives when a topic like this comes up, not just Jan 6th insurrectionists.

 

Totally agree. I guess the issue I take is, we have one side being anti democratic and bigoted and anti science, and one side that on rare occasion gets so frustrated with the lack of progress on anything resembling equality or actual tolerance that some stuff goes down. And even then, only a tiny fraction. It's not both sides, it's one side making people run from certain things due to bigotry, like craft beer.