Does cane sugar impart flavor in beer?

Discussion in 'Beer Talk' started by Warwick7, May 11, 2021.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. Warwick7

    Warwick7 Zealot (505) May 25, 2019 Maryland

    Hey, i was wondering if you all had an idea why a brewer such as Sam Smith would use cane sugar?

    Are they using it to aid fermentation and it does not effect the flavor of the ale at all, or are they using for the taste? Im intersted in this, as we all know how much Sam Smith loves tradition and when I first heard of them they came across as a Malt, Water, Yeast and Hops only kind of brewery.
     
    officerbill likes this.
  2. JoeSpartaNJ

    JoeSpartaNJ Zealot (691) Feb 5, 2008 New Jersey

    No flavor. It is used to boost alcohol content.
     
  3. Ranbot

    Ranbot Pooh-Bah (2,463) Nov 27, 2006 Pennsylvania
    Pooh-Bah

    Chaz, kemoarps, Peach63 and 5 others like this.
  4. Warwick7

    Warwick7 Zealot (505) May 25, 2019 Maryland

    Intersting, Candi Sugar does not affect the flavor either?
     
  5. BruChef

    BruChef Maven (1,277) Nov 8, 2009 New York
    Society

    It can add a cider like flavor to beer.
     
    dcotom likes this.
  6. Ranbot

    Ranbot Pooh-Bah (2,463) Nov 27, 2006 Pennsylvania
    Pooh-Bah

    It can depend... The article discusses it briefly... some types of Belgian candi sugar have some "impurities" (compared to pure cane sugar) that can impart some additional flavors to the final beer, but the main impact is raising ABV and drying out the beer. The same concept would apply to brewing with honey, maple syrup, or other simple sugars.
     
  7. AMessenger

    AMessenger Aspirant (269) Mar 17, 2018 Pennsylvania

    This is a great blog looking at history of English beer:

    http://barclayperkins.blogspot.com/

    He posts historic brewing records weekly from the past 150 years or so. Sugar additions are a very common thing in English beer historically - often as various shades of invert syrup.

    I have brewed a number of these recipes - the darker invert syrups do impart some flavor (caramel, toasted marshmallow, and raisin) although the contributions are typically fairly subtle
     
  8. cavedave

    cavedave Grand Pooh-Bah (4,157) Mar 12, 2009 New York
    In Memoriam Pooh-Bah Trader

    Just a quick note that adding cane sugar to the wort makes more alcohol in the beer, and alcohol has flavor it adds to the beer.
     
    stingray, kemoarps, afrokaze and 8 others like this.
  9. GetMeAnIPA

    GetMeAnIPA Pooh-Bah (2,559) Mar 28, 2009 California
    Pooh-Bah

    that’s old info. I’ve heard many reputable homebrewing podcasts do experiments and in no Case does it produce cider flavor. The idea that it produces cider taste is because old yeast was being used back in the day.

    i use white sugar or dextrose in my ipas and have never had a cider flavor.
     
    stingray, kemoarps, Peach63 and 7 others like this.
  10. GetMeAnIPA

    GetMeAnIPA Pooh-Bah (2,559) Mar 28, 2009 California
    Pooh-Bah

    This! I was going to say the same thing. Will you get a sugar taste? No, but by adding sugar you are changing to wort composition thus changing the flavor. Sugar can dry the beer out leaving less body so that will change the over taste. Also, more alcohol.
     
  11. BruChef

    BruChef Maven (1,277) Nov 8, 2009 New York
    Society

    Right on. That’s good to know. Thanks!
     
    kemoarps and GetMeAnIPA like this.
  12. billandsuz

    billandsuz Pooh-Bah (2,097) Sep 1, 2004 New York
    Pooh-Bah

    Earlier posts pretty much hit all the answers.

    One other addition is to note if the sugar has been added post fermentation.
    If the beer is pasteurized, sterile filtered, cold filtered or otherwise "dead" and the fermentable is added then it will increase sweetness because it will not ferment.

    It is also possible to sweeten a brew by overloading the viable yeast. They will crap out, sooner or later depending on the yeast, and go dormant before full attenuation. This will leave residual fermentable.

    So a traditional brewer might do any of the following, each with different result.-
    Add fermentable post fermentation, pre-fermentation, during fermentation.
    So I guess that is two other things to note.

    Finally, sugar is a very cheap adjunct. We like to fetishise Old World brewers, Belgian brewers in particular, but these guys are foremost savvy businesses. The unique brewing traditions of Belgium are mostly the result of tax avoidance for instance. Trappists use sugar all the time. Hop jelly too.

    Cheers
     
    stingray, kemoarps, Roguer and 2 others like this.
  13. TongoRad

    TongoRad Grand Pooh-Bah (3,884) Jun 3, 2004 New Jersey
    Society Pooh-Bah Trader

    Technically it's not usually for an alcohol boost; it's better to think of it as a malt substitute by design, so the gravity and alcohol are similar in the end.

    Not only is the sugar more fermentable, it more importantly doesn't contribute proteins (and it's actually diluting whatever proteins are there as well). In certain styles having a leaner body and drier finish are desirable, resulting in a more elegant finished product.
     
    stingray, kemoarps, rgordon and 10 others like this.
  14. teromous

    teromous Grand Pooh-Bah (3,180) Mar 21, 2010 Virginia
    Pooh-Bah Trader

    If you are using a less-refined or unrefined sugar you can get more flavor out of it. Piloncillo is a good example of cane sugar that will impart flavor if the rest of the beer permits it.
     
  15. marquis

    marquis Pooh-Bah (2,313) Nov 20, 2005 England
    Pooh-Bah

    Yes, brewers sugar isn't the same as what you have on the dining table. There are grades, No4 is like black treacle. All offer more than just fermentable material.
     
    kemoarps, MrOH, Roguer and 3 others like this.
  16. JackHorzempa

    JackHorzempa Grand Pooh-Bah (3,375) Dec 15, 2005 Pennsylvania
    Society Pooh-Bah

    The terminology of “brewer’s sugars” may be confusing to some folks. Brewers utilize a variety of sugars when brewing beer. Some sugars that are used are cane sugar, corn sugar and others. The fact that brewers use simple sugars such as cane sugar, corn sugar, … to brew beer could mean that these are too “brewer’s sugars”. These simple sugars will not in and of themselves contribute flavor to the resulting beers.

    Cheers!
     
  17. patto1ro

    patto1ro Pooh-Bah (2,084) Apr 26, 2004 Netherlands
    Pooh-Bah

    If it's raw cane sugar, it will add flavour. I'd be surprised if Sam Smiths were using pure sucrose. That's not the type of sugar British brewers used.
     
  18. patto1ro

    patto1ro Pooh-Bah (2,084) Apr 26, 2004 Netherlands
    Pooh-Bah

    Nothing more traditional than using sugar in British beer.
     
  19. tasterschoice62

    tasterschoice62 Grand Pooh-Bah (3,949) May 14, 2014 Rhode Island
    BA4LYFE Society Pooh-Bah Trader

    Dextrose would be a better substitute and used basically for the same thing. Drying out the final product and lightening the body. Not entirely sure but I believe dextrose might affect the final taste moreso than cane white sugar. Can dextrose be used during bottling to add carb? I believe so.
     
    TongoRad likes this.
  20. Warwick7

    Warwick7 Zealot (505) May 25, 2019 Maryland

    I am a huge fan of yours sir. Medieval history is my passion, but it seems a lot harder to learn about medieval ale and your work on 18th century ale fascinates me. Im not totally certain that the 18th century was the start of industrial brewing in England as monastaries could be huge and im sure they pumped out a lot of ale. Though its intersting nontheless.

    Im unaware of anyone on your level besides perhaps Martyn Cornell.

    Just want to make sure I understood you right, you are saying that you believe that they use raw sugar which does impart flavor? I relized that Im more ok with sugar in there Sam Smith Brown Ale then there Stout. As I want a heavier body in a Stout while still keeping a low abv.
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.