Tired Hands (2021)

I'm think I'm with you on this . . . would still like to see how things shake out in the near-to-mid-term future.

 

William, I couldn't have said it better myself.

 

Thanks, that's really the gist of what I was trying to say.

 

Real change and healing can't happen without real consequences. I've seen nothing yet to meet that criteria. It's early, and Jean clearly is taking a PR hit, but for myself, I expect actual change, which cannot include he and his wife as majority owners. Otherwise, I see no reason to really believe things will change fundamentally, either internally or the industry as a whole. Jean not being able to drunkenly verbally abuse staff at work is nice and all, but wholly inadequate.

 

It's both. Between the allegations and how badly Jean flubbed the response he had no way to push back against this. That said it's a long way from actual change which probably requires some firings, ownership share selling, etc. if we're being realistic.

 

And THAT is exactly what I was waiting for. The mob always wants more, they are never satisfied.

@stairway2heavn .... how much is enough to satisfy you in this particular situation, personally? Jean and his wife out as owners? Will that be enough? Or will they need to "do more" and "be better"?

Despite my "tone", I'm truly not trying to be a prick here. Yours (and others) posting is why I was so vocal in the Hill thread, and for some weird reason now those posts are gone and I can't reply, so either @Todd got mad at me or one of you reported me, for basically saying I wanted to wait and see. I cannot, and likely will not, ever understand this need for immediate bloodlust without waiting for things to play out. I want to understand the mob mentality that wants to eviscerate and end people's livelihoods yesterday, and to what end will finally satiate them enough to move on to the next online outrage.

 

I know this sounds kind of minor in context, but I do wonder what will happen to the beer, i.e., how much of the greatness of (many of) the beers has to do with Jean's direct involvement, and whether it will suffer, perhaps because Jean starts fucking with it on purpose (which I can absolutely imagine happening).

 

i struggle to find fault with this post.
Honestly, I’ve been willingly giving TH my money since they opened their doors.

But this is about as positive an outcome as could be expected. I’m the past, some business owners were either forced or advised by counsel to sell their entities.

I am not suggesting this is a good idea, but wouldn’t be surprised by anything anymore.

Just awful for those affected by these terrible incidents.

 

In short, the bloodlust you refer to is a cry for culture change. Sure, it might not always be done the right way, but clearly there are some systemic issues that exist.

 

And I am surprised by that… generally speaking, his messaging is pretty spot on. This was not.

 

Definitely looking for "real change" as well. But with the caveat that it's only been a few days, I do think that this constitutes "real change" and signals toward the right way forward considering that nearly all of the complaints arose re: actions taken by Jean/Julie in their role as day-to-day managers of operations. That last clause is key, for me at least.

If you're more pessimistic, I wouldn't blame you whatsoever.

 

Excuse me, but I was definitely part of the mob. And I expressed satisfaction.

 

How does the wait and see route play out in practice (I too am being genuine and I too had posts removed in the HF thread)? There's no right or perfect answer to all this. My overall feeling is that if there is some collateral damage (not meaning TH or HF specifically) then so be it; I think undeniably there is an overall problem in the industry. But like @William_Navidson I too think this outcome is much better than you'd ever have expected in such a short amount of time (meaning TH; def doesn't apply to the multi-syllable vacuous freshman philosophy response to the Vine article coming out of HF)

 

"Waiting for the whole thing to play out" without anyone advocating for consequences for the people responsible for harming their employees makes it easier for them to just skate away without facing any meaningful consequences.

If you "wait and see" without people using their voices to make it known that as consumers we expect there to be consequences, then you just make it likely nothing is done to change things, and people will continue to be mistreated or abused.

 

Pretty much. If you do what you’ve always done, you get what you’ve always gotten.

 

Agreed, nothing groundbreaking is happening in a few days. I just think longterm the only consequences that really make powerful people think twice are either criminal charges (weinstein etc) or financial (Donald Sterling). It doesn't mean Jean has to lose everything, but I don't think it's crazy to say that while he and his wife are entitled to their 80 percent share, they're not entitled to an 80 percent share of a respected profitable company. Getting them in the minority and employees the majority, even as they are paid out fairly, is fine by me and I think could send real ripples through the industry. A few hr handbook changes and female or black TH brewers is nice but not going to move the needle overall the same way.

 

This is what got me:

It's literally hours after the TH employees took over. And I have read the IG posts both from Jean and the employees and there are STILL people in the comments with this sentiment, like it's not good enough, they didn't do enough, etc. It's like they are supposed to get rid of the owner, get rid of the inner circle, find new ownership and instill a better culture before Happy Hour tonight. Jesus Christ, people. The need for instant gratification here is mindboggling.

That is my point. This shit takes time.

 

Inky story:
https://www.inquirer.com/food/drink/tired-hands-brewery-sexual-harassment-20210518.html

 

But here's the thing - they haven't actually committed to doing any of those things. And they won't, unless people put enough pressure on them to actually do them.

It's not about "instant gratification," it's about people wanting to see that real changes are actually made. An Instagram post means nothing without concrete details about how they are moving on from the management people and philosophy that allowed things to be so bad for the employees.

If everyone just decided to "wait and see," rather than keep the pressure on, nothing would happen. Jean would saunter back into the brewhouse in a few months, and the employees would be no better off. All this would be for nothing.

 

I'm not sure what your point is here. I never stated I expected a wholesale change literally overnight. I merely stated that this one Instagram post, especially after the horrible initial response, really isn't enough to convince me years of cultural issues within TH are just going to change, especially if there aren't real consequences. Moreover, it's a test case for the industry. If Jean comes out untouched other than a less public role and some shaming, that's pretty weak, and really just feeds into the (justified) narrative that nobody in the hobby or industry really cares about any of this. Also, you say takeover, but it's a darn post on Instagram and a couple days work stoppage. It's nice and all in the moment, I agree. However, money (and ownership) talks. everything else is window dressing.

Tldr, why do I have to immediately go buy some Helles Other People this weekend? I think I can wait a few weeks and see where it goes, no?