Should we bring back New Beer Sunday?

Blog Discussion in 'BeerAdvocate Talk' started by Todd, Jun 7, 2021.

?

Return New Beer to Sunday?

Poll closed Jun 12, 2021.
  1. Yes

    87 vote(s)
    46.0%
  2. No

    102 vote(s)
    54.0%
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  1. thebeers

    thebeers Grand Pooh-Bah (5,837) Sep 10, 2014 Pennsylvania
    BA4LYFE Society Pooh-Bah Trader

    At least they’re asking for input now. Progress! Good to be part of a community where people learn from the past and make improvements.

    Yep, I loved the host openings. This is a great one.
     
  2. ovaltine

    ovaltine Grand High Pooh-Bah (6,787) Apr 6, 2010 Indiana
    BA4LYFE Society Pooh-Bah Trader

    You’re a nested view dentite!!!

     
  3. meefmoff

    meefmoff Pooh-Bah (1,922) Jul 6, 2014 Massachusetts
    Pooh-Bah Trader

    You are being absurdly pedantic.
     
    #243 meefmoff, Jun 11, 2021
    Last edited: Jun 11, 2021
    thebeers likes this.
  4. HoppingMadMonk

    HoppingMadMonk Grand Pooh-Bah (5,208) Mar 3, 2017 New Jersey
    BA4LYFE Society Pooh-Bah Trader

    Somehow that comment comes off slightly pedantic. What exactly does that insult bring to the table as far as helping this conversation??seriously?not an attack but how does that help??
     
    Whyteboar likes this.
  5. jonphisher

    jonphisher Grand Pooh-Bah (3,850) Aug 9, 2015 New Jersey
    Society Pooh-Bah Trader

    If people thing NBW is missing something, why not just participate again? I've read several reasons why but if you feel something is missing why not be a part of bringing on the change that you miss?

    As a few have said at this point, just changing it back isn't gonna solve the problem/complaint being brought up. Participating, joining in, and making it what you want it to be might though.

    I know I already said this but I personally have got a lot of enjoyment and engaged with a lot of people in NBW since I jumped in, last summer or so. So from my perspective that community feel is there. Its obviously not the same good old days that some of you say you miss, but NBW is all I know so I'm living in the good old days right now and enjoying it.
     
  6. JackHorzempa

    JackHorzempa Grand Pooh-Bah (3,375) Dec 15, 2005 Pennsylvania
    Society Pooh-Bah

    Thanks for making that statement/observation.

    It is indeed noteworthy that the sense of loss will be different for folks who have been NBS participants for many years vs. those who are relatively new to the weekly thread. Just something to keep in mind when reading the posts made within this thread.

    Cheers!
     
  7. MNAle

    MNAle Initiate (0) Sep 6, 2011 Minnesota

    Thinking back...

    The well-worded reviews and insider commentary going on on the NBS thread was intimidating... like drinking wine with a group of sommeliers and thinking, "Where in the hell are they getting all THAT?"

    Turned out, though, they were just a bunch of friendly folk enjoying a new beer!...
     
    #247 MNAle, Jun 11, 2021
    Last edited: Jun 11, 2021
  8. MNAle

    MNAle Initiate (0) Sep 6, 2011 Minnesota

    I mentioned this earlier. The "just the facts, Ma'am" rules that accompanied the change did more to change the tone and feel of the thread than anything else.

    And IIRC, @Todd re-emphasized the rules for the thread in a fairly authoritative tone in his post announcing the change from NBS to NBW, and in his followups to the replies to his post. (But, I'm going from memory... I didn't go back and look it up.)
     
  9. Todd

    Todd Founder (13,518) Aug 23, 1996 Finland
    STAFF Mod Team Society Pooh-Bah

    FYI: I never announced the change from NBS to NBW. I simply approved the change after it was discussed with the community and mods. The only time I really commented on any changes to NBS was when we finally defined the rules on March 9, 2020: https://www.beeradvocate.com/community/threads/new-beer-sunday-week-785.635791/page-4#post-6828211

    NBW started on July 24, 2020: https://www.beeradvocate.com/community/threads/new-beer-weekend-1-new-beer-sunday-week-805.644077/
     
  10. Roguer

    Roguer Grand High Pooh-Bah (7,811) Mar 25, 2013 Connecticut
    Mod Team Society Pooh-Bah Trader


    No, I’m not. I’m being accurate. Making an argument from a foundation of inaccuracy is a really poor way to win people to your side.

    If you think restricting the thread to Sunday somehow made it better than restricting it to the entire weekend, THEN SAY THAT. @BBThunderbolt actually has that opinion, and makes it clear. You instead chose to delve into hyperbole and inaccuracy, making your point irrelevant - as I pointed out (as a four hour window would be more restricted, and therefore ... better, according to you?).

    You haven’t bothered to make your actual point, or clarify that point so that it makes actual sense. That’s on you, not anyone else - especially if you have the stones (please don’t sue me, Greg! ) to accuse anyone else of a lack of clarity of communication.
     
  11. Roguer

    Roguer Grand High Pooh-Bah (7,811) Mar 25, 2013 Connecticut
    Mod Team Society Pooh-Bah Trader


    I have actually been hoping to hear more, in this thread, from newer posters. The most vocal opinions (including yours and mine) are obviously colored by our history with the thread. Which isn’t to imply they’re wrong or irrelevant - just that we are kind of dominating/driving the discussion.

    Our voices matter; they’re just not the only voices that matter.
     
  12. JackHorzempa

    JackHorzempa Grand Pooh-Bah (3,375) Dec 15, 2005 Pennsylvania
    Society Pooh-Bah

    Yup. All voices matter.

    My intention of post #246 was to highlight some differences based upon whether you participated on NBS for 10 years (or whatever) or just over the past year year but all members of the BA community 'count'.

    Cheers!
     
  13. thebeers

    thebeers Grand Pooh-Bah (5,837) Sep 10, 2014 Pennsylvania
    BA4LYFE Society Pooh-Bah Trader

    Meemoff stated his opinion very clearly that having NBS take place "over a constrained time period ... increased the likelihood that the group of participating posters were having a somewhat communal experience (that is, the person whose post you were reading at any given moment was more likely to also still be actively participating in the thread themselves)." You may disagree, but not sure where your claim of factual inaccuracy is coming from.
     
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  14. Roguer

    Roguer Grand High Pooh-Bah (7,811) Mar 25, 2013 Connecticut
    Mod Team Society Pooh-Bah Trader


    His exact point was that NBS took place over a constrained time period, and NBW does not. He did not state that the amount of time changed and that made participation worse, but that the change was that one thread was constrained, and with NBW, that is no longer the case. That’s factually untrue.

    NBW did not change to an unconstrained time period. The AMOUNT of time changed, and that could indeed be something that someone does not like (like Terry), but that is a different argument. Hence, my point that the amount of time constraint is somewhat arbitrary, as a four hour New Beer Afternoon would be even more constrained - and therefore, better? (I’d suggest no, that would not be better, but that’s just my opinion. :wink: )

    As you quoted, “a” constrained time period (per Mm) increased the likelihood of participation (that seems counterintuitive to me; I participate MORE knowing that someone could reply the next day, instead of the thread becoming locked, but that’s me), but ... NBW is still a constrained time period, so he literally hasn’t made any argument there - nor have you in that regard. The W stands for Weekend, not Whenever.

    As I said before, if someone thinks a 24 hour thread is better than a 48 hour thread (for whatever reason), then simply SAY THAT. Not that freaking difficult. Don’t say that NBW is unconstrained, and that’s why you don’t like it, because that’s not true - and therefore doesn’t make any damn sense.
     
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  15. Roguer

    Roguer Grand High Pooh-Bah (7,811) Mar 25, 2013 Connecticut
    Mod Team Society Pooh-Bah Trader

    Just to make sure I’m not misunderstood (or you!), I was agreeing with you. :slight_smile:

    Text can be unclear at times (this thread makes that obvious lol).
     
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  16. thebeers

    thebeers Grand Pooh-Bah (5,837) Sep 10, 2014 Pennsylvania
    BA4LYFE Society Pooh-Bah Trader

    I didn’t see him say that anywhere, but I understand you interpret his comments differently. FWIW, I doubt that anyone would disagree that a weekend is a constrained period of time.

    I thought he stated that pretty clearly in his post, which I re-quoted again for you above and will re-quote again below. I’ve also said so clearly in this thread. Others have as well.

    One basic argument is that having NBS on one day “increased the likelihood that the group of participating posters were having a somewhat communal experience (that is, the person whose post you were reading at any given moment was more likely to also still be actively participating in the thread themselves)."

    I’m sure many will disagree, but I’m not sure how to state the point any clearer than that.
     
  17. Roguer

    Roguer Grand High Pooh-Bah (7,811) Mar 25, 2013 Connecticut
    Mod Team Society Pooh-Bah Trader

    From his post that kicked off that side discussion: “Two of those three things are no longer the case.”
    And: “2) It took place over a constrained time period that increased the likelihood that the group of participating posters were having a somewhat communal experience (that is, the person whose post you were reading at any given moment was more likely to also still be actively participating in the thread themselves).”

    To ME, that very clearly reads that “a constrained time period” is what made NBS special, not the amount of constrained time - which, again, I suggested cheekily that a four hour NBS would therefore be even better! Nowhere did he state that a two day thread somehow made this participation worse; he said NBS was constrained, which made participation better, and that’s no longer the case. Perhaps I read it too literally, and what he MEANT was that the specific amount of time constraint of NBS was the mystical, ideal amount - but he sure as hell did it say that, at all (and that’s a different conversation).

    Then there’s this, from a subsequent post, after it was suggested that dedicated hosts weren’t coming back:

    “If there is no chance of any aspect of NBS Sunday returning then what are we doing here exactly?”

    I read that as, “If the only thing we are talking about is how many days does the thread last, then why are we even talking about this?”

    That strongly suggests that the one day format is not the crux of his argument, anyway (which he alluded to in that first post, where he suggested point 3 - dedicated hosts - seems to resonate the most - and with which I have completely and clearly agreed).

    So again: maybe I read things too literally. I am also a stickler for clarity in language (if not brevity, obviously lol). But I read what he actually wrote, and pointed out the inconsistency - nothing more. He did the same when he challenged (and misquoted) my “get over it” line, and you know what? I clarified it. Twice. Since it was apparently to understand in context.

    Not that damn hard, it turns out. :wink:
     
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  18. BBThunderbolt

    BBThunderbolt Grand High Pooh-Bah (7,846) Sep 24, 2007 Kiribati
    Pooh-Bah Trader

    Well, any defined time frame is a constraint, let's not split the hair too fine. Unless, of course, anyone advocates taking the route of the Latest Haul thread: Making it New Beer Year (NBY 2021).

    In my view, the one day constraint helped focus the thread, and, if you wanted to participate, you found a way. Imperfect analogy time; remember when if you wanted to watch a TV show, you had to be in front of a TV at the appointed time. Then, the next day, you would talk about with your friends and coworkers. Now, folks stockpile shows so that they can watch them days/weeks/months later (a friend of mine saved all of Game of thrones until the series ended before watching it. he'd get mad if folks talked about an episode that happened a year ago, yelling about SPOILERS! , that was very annoying, and I wasn't even a GoT fan). Well, back when, if you wanted to participate in NBS, you had to find a few minutes on Sunday, and that helped make the experience more focused, involved, and, to a small degree, intense. A shared experience, much like watching the Sopranos, and talking about how they whacked Big *****.

    The 2 day constraint waters down the experience, and leads to more WBAYDN-like drive-bys. But, as I said pages ago, there's no going back. Don't try to make some Frankenstein version of it by trying to revive it. NBW is but a pale ghost of it's now dead progenitor, but it's what we've got now. We'll just have to deal with it.

    For better or worse (MUCH WORSE).
     
  19. thebeers

    thebeers Grand Pooh-Bah (5,837) Sep 10, 2014 Pennsylvania
    BA4LYFE Society Pooh-Bah Trader

    Ever see that movie “The Big Year,” about birdwatchers trying to tick off a certain number of bird sightings in a one year period?

    Something like that for beer reviews could make an interesting annual thread. Can you review every style in a year? What about the top rated in each category? All 50 states? Etc. Everybody sets their own goals. Others help them with access to beers as the year moves along. On New Years Eve there’s a party at your place.
     
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  20. Smakawhat

    Smakawhat Grand High Pooh-Bah (7,191) Mar 18, 2008 Maryland
    BA4LYFE Society Pooh-Bah

    Been reading and keeping tabs on everyone's opinion on the matter. Good points made on both sides.

    I think there's some nostalgia no question for good ole NBS no question there, but nostalgia for just nostalgia sake isn't always the best excuse I think. There also certainly was a big deal of issues starting the thread. I certainly remember duplicate threads being started, and post from others such as... when is NBS starting??? and so on.

    I am torn and still haven't voted yet, but I think I will soon.
     
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