Broad beer categories

Of course it does, there is no way to do what we did in mycology, which is a name convention based on genome. It asks a brewer, who presumably knows his product, to make judgements about his own beer, something done now much more poorly by a system you actually had to disclaim in an earlier post, "As poorly as it works, I do think that our current mish mash of style designations..."

My own comment about the possibility of styles being revised in a way that makes sense, "I realize how unlikely it is to happen. Too many have too much invested in this failure of a style system, including in all fairness, this site."

 

Yeah, but your system would take up valuable space that could go more 4th grade level cartoons on the cans. Plus, wouldn't match all the death imagery of the metalhead breweries.

 

This, I think, is to crux of my point. What you're proposing is really just another subjective framework for categorizing beers. I think that if you, or some group of people, were to create a fleshed out system like you're describing it would be valuable to many people. I think that it would be interesting and educational to go through the process of working out a system like that. But at the end, I think we'd be left with another system that captured some aspects excellently and had major shortcomings in others. That's why I say that the mish mash is the best, no one system is going to successfully communicate everything to everyone about every beer.

 

I still think it would be possible to have broad categories as one data point (field) and a separate collection of modifiers (like labels) that can be applied on top of it. For example, have an imperial stout category, with modifiers - e.g. barrel aged, pastry/flavored, coffee.

I would consider starting with the modifiers curated per category to include the most common "sub-styles" - but even four modifiers per category can yield 16 different sub-styles (if I did the math right).

Now, the suggestion has been made in the past and met with little to no enthusiasm , so I am not expecting it to happen. But I'll mention it every once in a while when these threads come up

 

Yes, a much more standardized, much more user friendly one that makes things easier for the consumer to know what is in the container.

If your point is that a better system than the one we have is not possible, I strongly disagree for all the reasons I've mentioned. If that is not your point, than what is your point?

Either way, too much of this thread dominated by this tangential discussion.

 

My point is that I don't believe that an objective classification system that would.be universally better for consumers exists or could.be created. I'm sure that improvement can be made (especially in adherence in labeling from.brewers), but I think that improvement is through the refinement of the various current systems.

I think this is a bit overstated. It seems that in general our system works pretty well to communicate what to expect, as long as brewers use it. There are some exceptions like the Berliner that you noted. The generic "IPA" or "sour" would be ones. The one that is most urgently in need of addressing in my mind is "saison". That can mean all sorts of different things to different people.

 

The system works well enough for us though the many branch tree might could do with some trimming. The general beer consumer is probably more interested in brands than styles and separate premium (Budweiser) from non (Milwaukee's Best) by price. Of course if the beer is darker then it must be stronger.

 

Fruited sour milkshake IPA. I still haven’t figured that one out.

 

Why 14? Serious question, no snark. It seems oddly specific and I would like to hear why.

BRØ... YØV HÄT?

 

Back when if first became obvious there were too many styles that were too contradictory and difficult to understand, and an inefficient way of delivering needed knowledge to consumers of characteristics of beer, I tried to standardize a grouping of basic categories into a logical and trimmed down grouping that could be combined with a standardized checklist of characteristics to deliver the info. I came up with fourteen. I actually lost that original list in the chaos of my divorce and distro of possessions, but I am pretty sure I could recreate it. 14 is not a magic number, and in fact I am ready to get behind any more standardized, more logical, easier to use, greatly reduced number of style categories, and any system that improves upon my idea for how to deliver info to consumers.

 

You need to put that one in the vomit beer category. (After getting a consensus approval to create it).

 

This is the actual culprit in my view. Its sort of immaterial how well designed any give classification system is when it comes to some brewers/marketers putting whatever they want on a label. Hell, some labels seem reluctant to give you any information about the liquid inside. It doesn't matter how precise your system of classification is if a brewer is just.going to add 40 boxes of trix per barrel and not emphasize that on the label. I don't see a solution to that that doesnt involve some kind of mandated style labeling requirements, and color me skeptical if we're hoping for simpler, clearer communication through government fiat

 

It has been mentioned a number of times in this thread but permit me to 'summarize': Marketing!

Some (most?) breweries are going to place whatever verbiage they think will maximize sales/revenue on their labels. Providing clear and precise language in order to communicate what is inside the can (or bottle) is not a priority for the marketers.

Cheers!

 

I hope for the same thing.

It seems like it to me, and my experience is that beer.labels are.generally becoming more informative. At least in my market, many of the newer breweries communicate the contents pretty clearly on the label.

I think we are experiencing a moment where brewers took a number of styles and experimented with throwing all kinds of shit into them. Some of these apparently worked and are.hear.to stay (neipa, super fruited kettle sours/Berliners, dessert stouts) and now we are just living in the lag between that phase and the nomenclature catching up.

Until then, maybe don't buy beers that don't feel labeled right and/or reach out to breweries you like who might be offenders.and let.them know they're confusing people and its annoying.