Complete fermentation under 4 days?

Discussion in 'Homebrewing' started by mijclarke, Aug 3, 2021.

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  1. mijclarke

    mijclarke Initiate (0) May 4, 2014 Illinois

    Total beginner attempting a NEIPA. I started with a 1.072 OG and pitched London Ale V. After only 3 days and 19 hours my FG was 1.018 and I was targeting 1.020. Anyone else ferment this fast? Pitched yeast at 70 and basement air temp was 66. Taste is decent but the yeast may have given it a little diacetyl or slight yeast funk. Will this flavor dissipate after a couple weeks maturing in packaging?
     
    #1 mijclarke, Aug 3, 2021
    Last edited: Aug 3, 2021
  2. PapaGoose03

    PapaGoose03 Grand High Pooh-Bah (6,057) May 30, 2005 Michigan
    BA4LYFE Society Pooh-Bah

    Under favorable conditions (fresh yeast, warmish temp) the fermentation can go quickly like you experienced. Your gravity reading was below target, so you're probably done. Another reading to validate the first one might be a good idea, especially if you might be bottling your beer. I'm not sure about your description of getting a funky flavor from your sample, but if it's a hint that you've picked up a wild yeast, another reading will help verify that the bug is not continuing to have lunch.

    Typically the off-flavors from fermentation will be cleaned up by the yeast in the few days after fermentation is complete. I'd wait a couple more days, confirm the gravity reading, then package your beer.
     
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  3. JackHorzempa

    JackHorzempa Grand Pooh-Bah (3,375) Dec 15, 2005 Pennsylvania
    Society Pooh-Bah

    Can you please provide more details here. I am familiar with London Ale III (Wyeast 1318) but not this strain.
    The important metric is fermentation temperature (not ambient). Do you know what was your fermentation temperature? Fermentation is an exothermic process (i.e., it generates heat) and it is likely your fermentation temperature was too high (yeast strain dependent) and you possibly created some undesired chemical compounds due to a higher fermentation temperature (e.g., higher alcohols/fusel oils).

    Cheers!
     
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  4. JoeSpartaNJ

    JoeSpartaNJ Zealot (691) Feb 5, 2008 New Jersey

    At 3 days the fermentation may be "done" but it is a little soon to judge. Yeast are still cleaning up and I sure you still have yeast and whatever else still in suspension. I would give it a few more days.
     
  5. mijclarke

    mijclarke Initiate (0) May 4, 2014 Illinois

     
  6. mijclarke

    mijclarke Initiate (0) May 4, 2014 Illinois

    Update/clarification: I misspoke earlier. I used British Ale V (Omega OYL-011). I believe one pack has 150billion cells but was manufactured June 7 so they aren’t all viable. Also I tried splitting yeast packet between two vessels. One was 3 gallons and the other was two gallons. Eye balled with a pippette which I’m regretting. I only checked gravity on 2 gallon vessel. I think I was biased and gave the 3 gallon vessel more yeast per gallon so I’m hoping that sample will have fewer ester flavors because yeast weren’t underpitched which stresses them. I wouldn’t say I’m getting diacetyl but definitely some funky ester flavors. I unfortunately didn’t check wort temp recently so it very well could have stayed at 70+ during fermentation bc I was struggling to drop temp with wort chiller. It was stuck at 70 as I was running hose water on a summer night outside. Last night I wet the outside of glass carboy and out a fan on high in the basement. Wet it again this morning but had to close basement closet so it’s only getting a draft from floor to door gap. I wrongly assumed that the wort would drop close to ambient temp before yeast activity raised it a couple degrees
     
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  7. JackHorzempa

    JackHorzempa Grand Pooh-Bah (3,375) Dec 15, 2005 Pennsylvania
    Society Pooh-Bah

    According to the Omega website the recommend fermentation temperature for OYL-011 is 64–74° F (18–23° C) so it is possible you were fermenting near the upper range (e.g., 74 °F).

    https://omegayeast.com/yeast/ales/british-ale-v

    More often than not I personally tend to target the middle portion of the yeast vendor’s recommended temperature range. For example, for OYL-011 I would target a fermentation temperature of 69 °F. For the situation of an ambient temperature condition 66 °F that would mean that I would have to cool down the fermenter. I would place my fermenter into a shallow Rubbermaid tub filled with water (this encourages the dissipation of heat from the fermenter) and if needed I would also add refreezable blue ice packs to get the temperature to meet my target.
    Fermenting warmer can produce more esters and also other stuff like for one example higher alcohols (fusel oils).

    I will send you a PM with more information included.

    Cheers!
     
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  8. Granitebeard

    Granitebeard Zealot (549) Aug 24, 2016 Maine

    At the same time, is it possible that there is a flavor you were not expecting from hops? You might think you are going to get something from a description, but end up with something different in the long run.
     
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  9. WhiteAngus

    WhiteAngus Initiate (0) Aug 3, 2021 Illinois

    You can turn a Haze around in a week. The three key elements are Fermentation temp, Dry hoping at high Krausen, and purging with Co2. Oxidation can kill a hazy and present off flavors. Water profile can also make or break a hazy. It needs to mash at a low P.H, I prefer 4.8 to 5. The salts really help the hops pop and give a nice juice quality when paired with biotransformation. London Ale 3 (or other strains from Omega, white labs, or imperial) can be stubborn but can also take off, especially with a starter. Sometimes it stalls out and slow finishes. Typically, I start at 67 and after dry hopping I raise my temp to 70 to help motivate the yeast to do their job. Cheers to ya! They don't always come out great, but with a few key components you can really help dial it in.
     
  10. OldBrewer

    OldBrewer Maven (1,385) Jan 13, 2016 Canada (ON)

    I'm just making a Munich Helles using Wyeast 2124, and trying pressure fermentation for the first time. The fermentation completed in 36 hours at about 65 F ambient temperature! Went from 1.048 to 1.010 where it's currently sitting while doing a diacetyl rest. So yes, complete fermentation can be achieved in a day and a half.
     
  11. pweis909

    pweis909 Grand Pooh-Bah (3,250) Aug 13, 2005 Wisconsin
    Pooh-Bah

    I haven't paid attention to much beer literature lately but this is the lowest mash pH I've ever seen anyone suggest. It's not in the reputedly optimal enzyme efficiency range for starch conversion -- 5.2-5.8. What benefits does it provide?
     
  12. mijclarke

    mijclarke Initiate (0) May 4, 2014 Illinois

    How do you do a diacetyl rest? Is the idea that the yeast fall out of solution and their off flavors dissipate? I packaged my beer last Saturday and the 3 gallon vessel tastes better than the 2 gallon vessel and I think it’s bc the 2 gallon vessel didn’t get enough yeast and they were stressed. I didn’t like the taste at all from 2 gallon vessel. Getting the fusel alcohol. Also the 3 gallon was dry hopped with an ounce of Amarillo so that may have masked off flavors from yeast a little bit. I’m currently storing bottles at room temp (66 in basement) for two weeks and see how the carbonation is. I filled with virtually no headspace (at most I left a 1/4 inch). Have been checking every day for bottle bombs. So far none yet
     
  13. mijclarke

    mijclarke Initiate (0) May 4, 2014 Illinois

    Also I freaked out about the yeast fermenting so fast that from days 4-10 I submerged fermentation vessels in cold water bath. Twice a day I would drop in 2 large ice packs and/or ice cube packs. I believe the temp of water was as low as 58 and as high as 61. Hopefully I didn’t kill all my yeast otherwise my bottles will be flat
     
  14. JackHorzempa

    JackHorzempa Grand Pooh-Bah (3,375) Dec 15, 2005 Pennsylvania
    Society Pooh-Bah

  15. VikeMan

    VikeMan Grand Pooh-Bah (3,067) Jul 12, 2009 Pennsylvania
    Pooh-Bah

    You increase the fermenter temperature for a few days toward the end of fermentation. The idea is that the yeast will stay active during the higher temperature diacetyl rest, and thus absorb diacetyl that would otherwise be left in the beer.
     
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  16. OldBrewer

    OldBrewer Maven (1,385) Jan 13, 2016 Canada (ON)

    Jack and VikeMan have provided useful information on how to do a diacetyl rest. It is especially important for lagers, and certain types of yeast that don't clean up too well. I was particularly concerned with how fast the fermentation went so I wanted to give the yeast extra time to 'clean up' before they drop naturally. Cold crashing right after fermentation is over would not give the yeast time enough to clean up, and would also stress the yeast and produce additional off-flavors.
     
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  17. wasatchback

    wasatchback Pooh-Bah (1,574) Jan 12, 2014 Tajikistan
    Pooh-Bah Trader

    Omega English V is their version of 1318. When warm if will ferment pretty fast. Plenty of commercial breweries ferment it at 72. That timeframe seems pretty normal for decently fresh yeast fermented that warm. (66 ambient means it fermented at 72 at least).

    You’ll get a lot more higher alcohols fermenting that warm but for an English Yeast this one might be the most forgiving of higher temps. Uncontrolled warmer ferments will create significantly more diacetyl than a controlled colder ferment.

    just give it a bit of time. If you’re dry hopping if at 66 give it at least a week. You’ll most likely get a decent amount of hop creep and you’ll need to leave it at least that long in order for the yeast to stop fermenting and clean up the Diacetyl. Willing to bet it finishes closer to 1.014 after a week on the hops due to hop creep.
     
  18. mijclarke

    mijclarke Initiate (0) May 4, 2014 Illinois

    Thanks everyone for your genuine help. Here’s an update on my bottling and the final taste:
    Day 10 - I packaged the “good” fermentation vessel into a 64oz growler, a 32oz howler, and 11 twelve oz bottles. I reluctantly bottled the bad vessel into 18 twelve oz bottles. I filled very near top on all containers - no more than 1/8 inch of head space. I was worried about oxidation but also about bottle bombs so I checked closet everyday (may have been a tad conservative on priming sugar bc of bottle bomb concern). 32oz and 12oz bottles went from 66 basement temp into fridge after 13 days of self carbonating and 64oz growler went into fridge after 14 days
    Day 24 - I cracked open a 12oz bottle and it was pleasantly carbonated (for the style). Taste was respectable. Ester or yeast off flavors improved slightly from original post.
    Day 25 - I cracked open my heavy duty Urban Chestnut 64oz growler (gasket clamp style) and my neighbors enjoyed it. While unclamping I braced myself and it gave me a strong puff but no foam. It carbonated a little better than my 12oz bottle.
    As for the “bad” vessel with the fusel alcohol taste, it never went away as I tried a bottle on day 26 and it was a drain pour.

    So I’m thinking the primary reason one vessel was good and the other was bad is because I underpitched my yeast on the bad vessel as I was trying to do 3 squirts (using cheap pipette) into the good 3 gallon vessel and 2 squirts into the bad 2 gallon vessel. I believe i was more liberal when I squirted into the 3 gallon vessel. However the type and shape of glass may have played a small role. The 2 gallon vessel was tall and narrow and may have had thicker glass. The 3 gallon carboy had less headspace. Another consideration is that the 3 gallon carboy was filled first and maybe the last runnings from the kettle into the 2 gallon vessel had more sediment that troubled the yeast. I’ll be doing a side by side of the bottles from each vessel with my friends to get their opinion on how drastically they taste different . Too me it’s night and day.
     
    #18 mijclarke, Aug 24, 2021
    Last edited: Aug 24, 2021
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  19. mijclarke

    mijclarke Initiate (0) May 4, 2014 Illinois

    [​IMG]
    T
    he “good” one that had fewer off flavors is on the left
     
  20. riptorn

    riptorn Pooh-Bah (1,776) Apr 26, 2018 Georgia
    BA4LYFE Society Pooh-Bah Trader

    Many folks don't follow up on their brews to let others know if/how the tips 'n tricks helped. Thanks for doing that.
    I have some bottles with a noticeable fusel character. They've been packaged for over two years and I occasionally taste one to see if it has dissipated....nope.

    Something that helped me keep my temperature somewhat in check was to put the fermentor in a tub of cool water with ice packs (as you did). Drape a damp towel or heavy shirt over it with the towel/shirt hanging down in the water so it can wick it up, then direct a fan at it. Evaporation, in my experience, cools it another 1°-3°. It ain't much but every bit helps when struggling to maintain a desired temperature.
     
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