Brewing School

Discussion in 'Beer Talk' started by BigIronH, Aug 8, 2021.

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  1. BigIronH

    BigIronH Grand Pooh-Bah (3,762) Oct 31, 2019 Michigan
    Pooh-Bah Trader

    I searched the forums and couldn’t find the information I was looking for. Basically, I’m at the point in my life where I’ve decided I want to do something that I truly love for a living. I’ve never homebrewed but I’ve read a lot regarding the processes and want to take the next step in learning how to make a career out of crafting beer recipes and making a product that I love. I’ve looked into https://www.siebelinstitute.com/courses/advanced-level/wba-master-brewer-program and they have quite a few options available. I’m thinking this is a good direction to head in. I was hoping some of you who may be involved on the production side at a brewery could give me some advice on where and how to obtain an education that would allow me an intermediate/advanced level position in beer production at a brewery. A lot of the job postings I’m looking at for “head brewer” at local breweries are asking for some type of a degree regardless of personal experience, so simply spending a few years getting comfortable with home brewing isn’t necessarily the remedy to my situation. The other problem is, a bottom level career such as a brewers assistant with no experience or education isn’t really an option because the wages aren’t going to pay my bills. I make a pretty comfortable living and I need to enter the industry at or near the wages I’m obtaining now to keep up with my household expenses. Any help/advice/recommendations would be appreciated. Cheers.
     
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  2. BBThunderbolt

    BBThunderbolt Grand High Pooh-Bah (7,846) Sep 24, 2007 Kiribati
    Pooh-Bah Trader

    Check your local colleges. Out here, Central Washington University has a 4 year program: https://www.cwu.edu/craft-brewing/ .

    And Skagit Community college has a two year program that has placed a lot of folks into breweries: https://www.skagit.edu/academics/areas-of-study/food-beverage-management/craft-brewing/

    And, "I make a pretty comfortable living and I need to enter the industry at or near the wages I’m obtaining now to keep up with my household expenses." is gonna be an issue. Most brewers at small breweries aren't making big money. Sales reps for distributors can make nice coin. But, even if you open your own brewery, you're gonna be starting at the bottom. Look at the student testimonials in that SVC link for an idea of what you'd be getting into.
     
    #2 BBThunderbolt, Aug 8, 2021
    Last edited: Aug 8, 2021
  3. BigIronH

    BigIronH Grand Pooh-Bah (3,762) Oct 31, 2019 Michigan
    Pooh-Bah Trader

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  4. JackHorzempa

    JackHorzempa Grand Pooh-Bah (3,375) Dec 15, 2005 Pennsylvania
    Society Pooh-Bah

    Another option is to just continue your job and learn to love a new hobby: homebrewing. I have been homebrewing for over 25 years (batch number 475 in the primary now).

    Lot's of friends/family said to me over the decades: you should become a professional brewer. I never considered that since I enjoyed my existing profession and I really enjoyed my paychecks.

    Cheers!
     
  5. BigIronH

    BigIronH Grand Pooh-Bah (3,762) Oct 31, 2019 Michigan
    Pooh-Bah Trader

    Well I do enjoy my paychecks but my profession is a stressful one and one that requires a lot of daily travel, requiring alot of
    time away from my family. I would have no problem stepping away from it to try something else but as I’m sure you know, after some amount of years it becomes hard to step away from a profession and start another one especially once you’re used to the income your current skills have afforded you.
     
  6. hopfenunmaltz

    hopfenunmaltz Pooh-Bah (2,635) Jun 8, 2005 Michigan
    Pooh-Bah

    In Michigan there are prodrams at Schoolcraft, Eastern Michigan, Western, Central, and some community colleges.

    Two of the oldest and highly recognized are Siebel Institute and UC Davis.

    https://majoringinbeer.com/other-beer-programs/

    Brewing can be hard work, sometimes dangerous. The pay isn't as high as you might think.

    I homebrew, and my saying about going pro is "Why ruin a good hobby?"
     
  7. BigIronH

    BigIronH Grand Pooh-Bah (3,762) Oct 31, 2019 Michigan
    Pooh-Bah Trader

    Siebel is what I have been currently looking at as they have a ton of online programs that are tiered in a way where a guy could do a basic course this year and advance as he saw fit which makes sense for my particular situation. I am in between Central and Schoolcraft but having a family and a full time(most often more) career kind of inhibits me from doing too much on campus education at this time. The online deal is enticing because of the whole “work at your own pace” dynamic. I appreciate the info.
     
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  8. JackHorzempa

    JackHorzempa Grand Pooh-Bah (3,375) Dec 15, 2005 Pennsylvania
    Society Pooh-Bah

    Yup, I can personally relate.

    Life's choices is all about compromise.

    If you are willing to take a step back in pay then commercial brewing is an option for you.

    Cheers!
     
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  9. BigIronH

    BigIronH Grand Pooh-Bah (3,762) Oct 31, 2019 Michigan
    Pooh-Bah Trader

    Ahhh, “compromise”; my least favorite word.
     
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  10. JackHorzempa

    JackHorzempa Grand Pooh-Bah (3,375) Dec 15, 2005 Pennsylvania
    Society Pooh-Bah

    For some reason I am reminded of an old conversation with an old girlfriend on the topic of choices for car tires. I did my best to detail that with a tire choice, some were better in the dry, some were better in wet conditions and that all season tires will only be OK in snow conditions. She consistently came back that she wanted tires that were excellent under all conditions (i.e., no compromises). I was not successful in this conversation. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

    Cheers!
     
  11. teal

    teal Zealot (589) May 3, 2012 Wisconsin

    FWIW - I know of zero “head brewers” that are making big dollars. Also, I would be disinclined to hire a head brewer that only had the degree and little to no practical experience. It’s a position that you work to, not start with by virtue of a degree.
     
  12. Shanex

    Shanex Grand Pooh-Bah (4,960) Dec 10, 2015 France
    Mod Team Society Pooh-Bah Trader

    Pretty sure many of us have considered Brewing/Homebrewing and turn the hobby into our own profession, as aptly said before though I’m not sure it’s a good idea. As opposed to starting your own brewery which is insanely expensive, It’s possible but since I don’t know what’s your actual profession nor will I ask… I’ll stop here.

    I’m neither a home brewer or a cisterone, I just don’t have the patience to home brew and not a great reviewer either. At the end of the day, I just sit down and enjoy what appeals to me: a couple of fine beers.

    Ah, before I start ranting I’ll just say that you’ll always lose any argument to your partner, GF or wife. :wink:
     
  13. Giantspace

    Giantspace Grand Pooh-Bah (3,043) Dec 22, 2011 Pennsylvania
    Pooh-Bah

    I love to cook. I will never be a chef as I can’t imagine cooking all day every day or running a kitchen. If you have never home brewed I would start there. You might not even enjoy it, it’s not all fun at all.

    My suggestion is to reevaluate your work and maybe take a step back in your field. You might want to do a similar job that is less stressful and less travel, my guess is it’s out there.


    Enjoy
     
  14. steveh

    steveh Grand Pooh-Bah (4,174) Oct 8, 2003 Illinois
    Society Pooh-Bah

    I once took flying lessons. My instructor told me the secret to making a million dollars in aviation -- start with 2 million. :wink:

    I'll bet it applies to brewing. However, there's a lot to be said about loving what you do.
     
  15. Todd

    Todd Founder (13,518) Aug 23, 1996 Finland
    STAFF Mod Team Society Pooh-Bah

    American Brewers Guild, Brewing School Graduate, Class of 2005 here. I highly recommend checking out their programs if you're looking for remote learning, hands-on experience, and job placement assistance.
     
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  16. BigIronH

    BigIronH Grand Pooh-Bah (3,762) Oct 31, 2019 Michigan
    Pooh-Bah Trader

    I’d like to think I’m a bit more reasonable than that, whether I like the outcome of the conversation or not. :wink:
     
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  17. BigIronH

    BigIronH Grand Pooh-Bah (3,762) Oct 31, 2019 Michigan
    Pooh-Bah Trader

    I appreciate the advice. Home brewing is definitely on my radar. As many have mentioned, it is definitely part of the equation in regard to experience. Although, as I have mentioned; none of the listings I’ve seen personally are asking for home brew experience. @teal I definitely understand your point of view, however I feel like I’ve come to an understand of credentials that are nice to have and credentials that you have to have. Obviously, in a perfect world, someone applying for your master brewer position would have several years of brewing experience plus verifiable technical skills in the form of evaluations and certifications from a testing body and/or school. I’m sure both will be imperative in my journey if I decide to pursue it further. Either way. I appreciate the insight and opinions from each of you. Cheers.
     
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  18. BigIronH

    BigIronH Grand Pooh-Bah (3,762) Oct 31, 2019 Michigan
    Pooh-Bah Trader

    I appreciate the recommendation, Todd. I was unaware of this possibility. Cheers.
     
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  19. jonphisher

    jonphisher Grand Pooh-Bah (3,850) Aug 9, 2015 New Jersey
    Society Pooh-Bah Trader

    I almost left teaching because of a few bad years once upon a time, I had family in brewing and almost started my career working QA in a brewery (chemistry degree) but it didn't work out, so thats where my brain went. When I was actively thinking about leaving I interviewed at one place and talked to lots of people at others. This is what I was told:

    1) we could offer you an internship but you'd be working for free...
    2) cellar person interview, your second interview you will work a full shift for free...
    3) from people I knew in the industry, you basically make nothing

    I just share since you mentioned the expenses part, which was a huge decision for me to stop pursuing it.

    I'm not sure what your degree is in but I think the best pay in brewing, while really being involved in the process, may be working QA if you have a science degree. Maybe someone else can confirm that, based on position pay rates I've seen posted.

    I also wanted to add, which I never thought about till interviews, etc. a lot of breweries operate on all three shifts so that’s another thing to think about.
     
    #19 jonphisher, Aug 9, 2021
    Last edited: Aug 9, 2021
  20. EmperorBatman

    EmperorBatman Zealot (741) Mar 16, 2018 Tennessee

    Thank you for making this thread. I’ve been thinking about making a career turnaround the past year, as my current line of prospects hasn’t been working out.

    I have an MA in History from a prestigious university in the national capital, which I had been hoping to leverage towards a career involving political research. However, I completed my studies during the pandemic and haven’t had much success networking, especially due to the migration to a virtual social life, meaning I haven’t been able to find a good “in” to get hired. My target industry, political non-profits (Think Tanks), is heavily reliant on having the right friends, which I currently don’t have and despite many phone calls and video interviews, I’m no closer to a breakthrough than I was in May 2020. It’s been discouraging, to say the least.

    Plus, I always sort of felt “out of place” in my MA program. I wasn’t around the friendliest or happiest colleagues or professors, and I should’ve known my degree was going to be a problem when I kept getting asked as early as my first semester about whether I was planning on getting my PhD…

    If I can’t make any progress in an intellectual trade, I was thinking of trying out a physical one. I’m not sure how I’d make the pivot from books to fermentation vats, but I’ve enjoyed the volunteering I’ve done so far at craft breweries. Most importantly though, I think I need some kind of clean slate where I can really focus on networking and job placement, as my university has been of dismal help for me in doing so this far.
     
    #20 EmperorBatman, Aug 9, 2021
    Last edited: Aug 9, 2021
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