Introduction to cellaring

Discussion in 'Cellaring / Aging Beer' started by BigIronH, Oct 3, 2021.

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  1. BigIronH

    BigIronH Grand Pooh-Bah (3,762) Oct 31, 2019 Michigan
    Pooh-Bah Trader

    I know there are threads that answer some of these questions throughout this forum but I thought it would be helpful for newbies to have all the info collected in one area and be able to concisely learn to protect our investments. A lot of opinions on these subjects are available online albeit with conflicting logic.

    1) Is it harmful to refrigerate corked bottles over a long period of time?
    2) What is the preferred temp and humidity conditions to cellar beer?
    3) How harmful is it really to store beer on its side, particularly if there is not natural light sources nearby?
    4) For those of us who live in single story house with no garage or basement, where would you recommend cellaring my beer? Is it better to attempt building a small cellar in a closet somewhere or just keeping it all refrigerated?
    5) Obviously climate fluctuation is a huge concern for most of us. What kind of fluctuation is considered acceptable? 5 degrees, 10 degrees? 20% humidity? Some concrete guidelines from someone experienced would be well received.
     
  2. dlcarst

    dlcarst Zealot (733) Aug 21, 2015 Missouri
    Trader

    You'll get a lot of varied answers on a few of these. 1 & 3 seem to have no consensus.

    2. 55 degrees is the widely accepted perfect temp. Humidity is probably less important, but I'd assume corks wouldn't last as long in low humidity.
    4. Get an old fridge or freezer and a temperature control device. I've done this for 5 years now. It holds lots of beer but is a limited space, and trust me that's a good thing, because in a few years you'll find yourself with more beer ready to drink than you have time to drink.
    5. As close to stable temperature as possible. A temp controlled fridge will do the trick. Fluctuation between 67 and 72 probably won't matter that much if you can't keep it at 55.

    Definitely read Vintage Beer. It's cheap, a fun read, and will tell you almost anything you need to know.
     
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  3. BigIronH

    BigIronH Grand Pooh-Bah (3,762) Oct 31, 2019 Michigan
    Pooh-Bah Trader

    In regards to 4, this is actually my current setup but due to some larger bottles I am quickly outgrowing it. Plus, questions 1 and 3. I appreciate your help.
     
  4. jesskidden

    jesskidden Grand Pooh-Bah (3,145) Aug 10, 2005 New Jersey
    Society Pooh-Bah Trader

    What does one have to do with the other? Regardless of the position of the bottle, no beer should be stored or cellared where it is exposed to natural or other light.
     
  5. BigIronH

    BigIronH Grand Pooh-Bah (3,762) Oct 31, 2019 Michigan
    Pooh-Bah Trader

    From what I understand one of the reasons some people oppose cellaring beer on its side is because it allows a larger surface of liquid for light to contact. That’s the only reason I put that in there. I’ve read a lot of stuff online and this is just one thing that stuck out to me.
     
  6. dbrauneis

    dbrauneis Grand High Pooh-Bah (8,071) Dec 8, 2007 North Carolina
    Mod Team BA4LYFE Society Pooh-Bah Trader

    I wouldn’t think it was greater surface area exposed to light but rather greater surface area exposed to air/oxygen (leading to faster oxidation).
     
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  7. BigIronH

    BigIronH Grand Pooh-Bah (3,762) Oct 31, 2019 Michigan
    Pooh-Bah Trader

    That makes better sense yet. Good chance I was misinterpreting it. I’ll see if I can find the article I read that gave me that impression. I’m really just starting to acquire a collection worthy of actually figuring out long term storage so aside from what is scattered throughout this site and the very opinion based articles online, I don’t have a ton to go on. Cheers
     
  8. Resistance88

    Resistance88 Grand Pooh-Bah (3,462) Apr 9, 2015 California
    Society Pooh-Bah Trader

    My wifes a professional baker and we only have one fridge. Sometimes she gets a job and has to store sheet cakes in the fridge and i have to take all my shit out. Nothing had happened, as far as i know, to the beers ive taken out and put back in. Now i just buy unrefidgerated ba stouts and shit and leave them around the house.
    I cant afford to have 2 fridges and damned sure not trying to get a bigger place just for beer storage.
    It sucks but it's just beer. Once i am ready to have one i refridgerate overnight and next day its damned delicious.

    What if you cant afford two fridges and have limited space? Does under the bed like boogeyman keep them safe?
     
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  9. BigIronH

    BigIronH Grand Pooh-Bah (3,762) Oct 31, 2019 Michigan
    Pooh-Bah Trader

    :wink:that’s kind of what I’m wondering. I live in a single story without really any “cool” spots that most people speak of when they talk about the best spots to store beer. I do have closets but they’re full of you know…clothes. Maybe under the bed isn’t such a bad idea, Tomas.
     
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  10. unlikelyspiderperson

    unlikelyspiderperson Grand Pooh-Bah (3,966) Mar 12, 2013 California
    Pooh-Bah Trader

    If you don't have a fridge or true cellar you just want to look for a relatively cool, relatively stable place in your house. Some things to consider would be avoiding heating elements (so not in the closet with your water heater or furnace, etc), on the floor vs up on a shelf, probably best stored along a North wall and definitely avoid a south wall, not in an area that gets lots of light.

    If you're not keeping your bedroom extra warm then under the bed would be great.
     
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  11. maximum12

    maximum12 Grand Pooh-Bah (4,686) Jan 21, 2008 Minnesota
    Pooh-Bah Trader

    Some good answers here so I'll just address climate fluctuation.

    When I started this madness of cellaring (about 2009) I knew jack. I had a nice concrete bunker in the basement in the furnace room that was empty, so that's where the beer went.

    The room fluctuates wildly from about 50 in the winter to 70 in the summer. That's a pretty big swing. I've kept stouts down there for years (I believe the oldest was an 8 year old Abyss at this point) with no obvious damage to the beers. They are probably aging a bit quicker due to the higher summer temps, but, well, none of them have complained about their quarters. :slight_smile:

    Point being unless you're into ultra long aging I haven't experienced much impact by a 20 degree swing with the seasons.
     
  12. BigIronH

    BigIronH Grand Pooh-Bah (3,762) Oct 31, 2019 Michigan
    Pooh-Bah Trader

    That’s helpful. At this point my issue is finding an interior room that stays below 70 consistently. My range would be much smaller than yours but I can’t keep the top end guaranteed below about 75. My range would probably be 65-75. There’s no air ducts in my closets so the A/C doesn’t really make it in there in the summer is basically what I’m getting at. I can feel it’s warmer in there when I open the door. I do have a crawl space, but that would make my range a lot greater/tougher access/bugs etc. I am going to be building a garage soon and I’m thinking that is going to probably be my best bet long term. At this point I’m shooting for that 50-70 since you’ve had experience in that range.
     
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  13. JackHorzempa

    JackHorzempa Grand Pooh-Bah (3,375) Dec 15, 2005 Pennsylvania
    Society Pooh-Bah

    If you are willing to do some manual labor you could construct a 'root cellar' in your backyard for beer cellaring.

    An example of an inexpensive (minus labor) root cellar:



    Cheers!
     
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  14. Beer_Economicus

    Beer_Economicus Pooh-Bah (2,698) Apr 8, 2017 Ohio
    Pooh-Bah Trader

    I could discuss these topics ad nauseum, but unless asked to or other questions are raised I'll try to just leave the answers above and comment on one thing that @maximum12 said, quoted above.

    People years ago used to talk about "skunky beer," and this often was associated with, for example, putting beer in a cooler, letting all the ice melt, and that beer coming up to at least room-temp. I'm not sure 'skunk' really has a true definition, but from everything I've ever read, the term was intended to be used with beer that was exposed to too much sunlight and underwent a chemical change.

    So, what about the temps? Temps affect beer only in very specific circumstances. People have done lots of experiments. Basically, you can store beer at any reasonable temperature, even 80-degrees for reasonably long time periods (e.g. over the summer or multiple summers) with no discernable effects on the taste of the beer (although longevity becomes a problem). The real issue with temperature is wildly vacillating temperatures at extremes. For example, your beer shouldn't go on the daily from 40-50(F) deg to 80+ deg, or from non-freezing temps to freezing. The latter is more problematic for low ABV beers that may partially freeze. Regarding the hot to 'cool' temps wild swings, this is certainly where some people have used the 'skunky' term. This is most problematic for lower-abv and hoppy beers, but still won't happen from a single day, or even a week.

    The reason @maximum12 experienced no issues is because his beer experienced gradual changes. If they were 20-deg changes every day (twice a day) for 2 years, it might have affected it depending on style. 2 years still isn't very long for stouts, especially high ABV stouts.
     
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  15. jesskidden

    jesskidden Grand Pooh-Bah (3,145) Aug 10, 2005 New Jersey
    Society Pooh-Bah Trader

    Years ago? It probably happened somewhere last night when someone was served a lightstruck Heineken, Rolling Rock or Yuengling Lager.:grin:

    Well, "skunky" is recognized as the less technical term for "Light Struck", used by consumers and, to a lesser extent, by brewers (well, maybe not Heineken or Yuengling brewers...:grimacing:). Take for instance this 'snip' from The Practical Brewer, the handbook published by The Master Brewers Association of The Americas:
    [​IMG]
    As frequently noted, the resulting chemical change produces
    "... 3-methylbut-2-ene-1-thiol, or “skunky thiol,” which is chemically similar to the compound in a skunk’s glad that gives their spray such an intense smell".
    Yeah, well, that would likely not be the cause, depending on the beer, the beer's packaging (bottle, can) and other factors like exposure to sunlight or other light sources. But, in general, if one is using "skunky" as a casual synonym for Light Struck, it would not be caused by temperature changes. Lots of people do, incorrectly, use "skunky" for any off-flavor or beer flavor they do not like.

    At least AB used to claim such a temperature change has no affect on Budweiser.
    [​IMG]
     
  16. Hinda65

    Hinda65 Pooh-Bah (1,908) May 7, 2017 Utah
    Society Pooh-Bah Trader

    This is exactly my setup which fluctuates from around 60 - 75 and I also have abyss I've stored down there for 5 years or so along with many other brews. I did a comparison not to long ago of side by side 2017 Willitized coffee stouts. 1 was in my temperature controlled fridge @ 52 and 1 was stored in my basement with the temperature differences.. After 4 years of storage, I could taste no difference.. I do have a shitty palate but they both tasted fine to me.
     
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  17. SFACRKnight

    SFACRKnight Grand Pooh-Bah (3,348) Jan 20, 2012 Colorado
    Pooh-Bah Trader

    I just bit the bullet and bought a chest freezer and an ink bird controller and use it as a cellar.
     
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  18. BigIronH

    BigIronH Grand Pooh-Bah (3,762) Oct 31, 2019 Michigan
    Pooh-Bah Trader

    That’s really what I would like to get myself. I’m outgrowing the fridge.
     
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  19. SFACRKnight

    SFACRKnight Grand Pooh-Bah (3,348) Jan 20, 2012 Colorado
    Pooh-Bah Trader

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    It started as a fermentation chamber for my homebrew. As my kids got older and I brewed less it was a natural progression.
     
  20. BigIronH

    BigIronH Grand Pooh-Bah (3,762) Oct 31, 2019 Michigan
    Pooh-Bah Trader

    the photo has me wondering how to install another layer of shelving.
     
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