Adjunct Ales?

Discussion in 'Beer Talk' started by bubseymour, Nov 27, 2021.

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  1. bubseymour

    bubseymour Grand Pooh-Bah (4,800) Oct 30, 2010 Maryland
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    Just wondering if there have ever been mass produced ales, minimal flavor and using cost cutting ingredients like AALs? Seems like there should be some recognizable ones out there, but most Cream Ales, Kolschs and Blonde Ales generally are made with respectable ingredients and are considered “craft” beers even when made by some of the macro brewers.
     
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  2. dbrauneis

    dbrauneis Grand High Pooh-Bah (8,071) Dec 8, 2007 North Carolina
    Mod Team BA4LYFE Society Pooh-Bah Trader

    Something like Ginny Cream Ale?
     
  3. JackHorzempa

    JackHorzempa Grand Pooh-Bah (3,375) Dec 15, 2005 Pennsylvania
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    When I hear/read “Cream Ale” the brand Genny Cream Ale immediately springs to my mind; maybe a regional thing.

    It is my understanding that Genny Cream Ale is an Ale brewed with adjunct (i.e., corn). This was documented:

    “To my mind Cream Ale has always been a quasi-American lager. Genesee Beer, according to the 1977 account, used as adjunct, “powder-fine and oil-free corn grits”, the proportion not specified. Genesee Beer only is mentioned in that section, not the Cream Ale, but I’d think the Cream Ale used the same adjunct.

    The rationale advanced for the corn is “starch to increase its ratio over proteins”, and this made the beer “lighter in colour, smoother in taste, and more pleasing to the palate”.”

    https://www.beeretseq.com/genny-cream-ale-fermentation/

    On the jesskidden website it lists:

    “Genesee Cream Ale - "...brewed with two-row and six-row malts, corn grits and Yakima Valley hops, (it) is made by blending a small amount of beer fermented with top fermenting yeast with a larger amount of beer fermented with bottom fermenting yeast." ---1983 GABF Program”

    https://sites.google.com/site/jesskiddenparttwo/home/top-and-bottom-fermenting-yeast

    Cheers!

    P.S. In a BA thread there is discussion about a dry-hopped version of Genny Cream Ale which reads interesting.
     
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  4. jesskidden

    jesskidden Grand Pooh-Bah (3,145) Aug 10, 2005 New Jersey
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    Just about every pre-craft era ale (and, likely, porter) brewed in the US - and there were hundreds of them - was brewed with corn (or sometimes rice) as an adjunct. I can only think of a handful of "All Malt" ales brewed between Repeal and the start of the "Craft" era - the two that come to me immediately are Croft Cream Ale (Boston) and Trommer's Ale (Brooklyn & Orange NJ)
    [​IMG]
     
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  5. tolar111

    tolar111 Grand Pooh-Bah (3,094) Aug 17, 2008 New York
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    Founders All Day IPA
     
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  6. Amendm

    Amendm Pooh-Bah (2,589) Jun 7, 2018 Rhode Island
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    Ballantine XXX immediately comes to mind. My grandfather drank it, and it may have been my first sip of "Beer".

    A decent Blonde Ale, the adjuncts keep the price low. Overall I think it's a lot more drinkable than the typical adjunct Lager.
     
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  7. BBThunderbolt

    BBThunderbolt Grand High Pooh-Bah (7,846) Sep 24, 2007 Kiribati
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    Would Founders count as "mass produced"?
     
  8. tolar111

    tolar111 Grand Pooh-Bah (3,094) Aug 17, 2008 New York
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    Absolutely, they sell more than Genny Cream Ale
     
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  9. bubseymour

    bubseymour Grand Pooh-Bah (4,800) Oct 30, 2010 Maryland
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    How could I forget Genny Cream Ale. Why are people bringing up Founders? Which beers in their lineup do they cut corners on lower quality ingredients with?
     
  10. jesskidden

    jesskidden Grand Pooh-Bah (3,145) Aug 10, 2005 New Jersey
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    Because their All Day IPA is brewed with corn.
    Well, this statement ignores the history of adjuncts in the US*, which stretches back to the mid-19th century, and was necessitated because of the six-row malt commonly available and grown in the US at the time. Sure, corn is cheaper than malted barley but brewers who use corn grits must add extra steps to the brewing process and equipment in the form of a cereal cooker. Not exactly a corner-cutting.

    *This topic has been discussed in these forums ad nauseam (well, at least so I thought...:grin:) rather than repeat it, one might look over posts/threads like these:
    https://www.beeradvocate.com/commun...n-lager-more-nostalgic-than-authentic.473359/
    https://www.beeradvocate.com/community/threads/malted-vs-unmalted-grains.634295/#post-6806260
    https://www.beeradvocate.com/community/threads/rice-doesnt-belong-in-beer-either-am-i-wrong.609504/

    Not likely, tho', huh?
     
    #10 jesskidden, Nov 28, 2021
    Last edited: Nov 28, 2021
  11. dcotom

    dcotom Grand High Pooh-Bah (6,637) Aug 4, 2014 Iowa
    BA4LYFE Society Pooh-Bah Trader

    The first one I thought of was Little Kings Cream Ale. I checked their web site, which doesn't have much information on the adjuncts they use. From what I remember of the last time I tried this, though, there has to be corn. It tasted like corn soda. (Not necessarily a bad thing under certain circumstances... :wink:)
     
  12. bubseymour

    bubseymour Grand Pooh-Bah (4,800) Oct 30, 2010 Maryland
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    Thanks for info on the All Day IPA I wasn’t aware of that. We’ve had tons of discussions on AALs but I was just curious what adjunct ales are out there on the market or historical.
     
  13. jesskidden

    jesskidden Grand Pooh-Bah (3,145) Aug 10, 2005 New Jersey
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    Yeah, like every other US brewed ale in the Repeal - pre-craft era (after the demise/change of recipe of the two noted above in post #4) was adjunct-brewed but I kinda remember after the Hudepohl-Schoenling brands were sold to Snyder International and the brewing of Little Kings was moved to their Maryland brewery (Wild Goose/Frederick, I guess it was? Now owned by Flying Dog) they announced they had tweaked the recipe but I can't remember if going all-malt was one of the changes.

    Trivia note - that brewery having bottled LKCA in their classic 7 oz. bottles is why new-owner Flying Dog briefly packaged some of their higher ABV beers in nips - one of the few "craft" brewers to use the package.

    I'd imagine, if that was the case under Snyder, the current Little Kings has reverted to an adjunct-brew?
    Yeah, but my point was that US brewers use of adjuncts for both their ales and lagers pretty much followed the same path and for the same reasons, especially once many of them began brewing them in the same facility. The original Ballantine India Pale Ale - +7% abv, est. 60 ibu's, "Aged in the wood 1 year" was brewed with corn grits. Worked for me.

    Heck, many even converted to using their house lager yeast, fermented at higher temps, for their ales (aka "bastard ales") much to the annoyance of some in the modern geekery, including well-known (and once beloved) beers like Rainier Ale, McSorley's Ale, Chesterfield Ale, Black Horse Ale, Little Kings Cream Ale and likely the current lousy version of Ballantine XXX Ale brewed by Molson Coors and marketed by Pabst.
     
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  14. EmperorBatman

    EmperorBatman Zealot (741) Mar 16, 2018 Tennessee

    Is Molson Export brewed with any adjuncts? It seems light enough flavor-wise that I imagine it does.
     
  15. JackHorzempa

    JackHorzempa Grand Pooh-Bah (3,375) Dec 15, 2005 Pennsylvania
    Society Pooh-Bah

    Molson Export is not specifically listed but the five Molson brands that are listed (Molson Canadian, etc.) all list corn syrup (maltose) as an ingredient.

    https://www.molsoncoors.com/sites/m...ionals Update Template With Ingredients_0.pdf

    Given this data I would be surprised if Molson Export is not brewed with corn syrup.

    Cheers!
     
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  16. Bitterbill

    Bitterbill Grand High Pooh-Bah (7,036) Sep 14, 2002 Wyoming
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  17. JackHorzempa

    JackHorzempa Grand Pooh-Bah (3,375) Dec 15, 2005 Pennsylvania
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  18. Bitterbill

    Bitterbill Grand High Pooh-Bah (7,036) Sep 14, 2002 Wyoming
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    #18 Bitterbill, Nov 28, 2021
    Last edited: Nov 28, 2021
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  19. jesskidden

    jesskidden Grand Pooh-Bah (3,145) Aug 10, 2005 New Jersey
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    That pdf notes it is for "Brands Sold in the U.S. Only" but MC's Canadian website still lists Export https://www.molson.ca/en-CA/our-brews Pretty sure they stopped sales of Export in the US a few years back.

    Molson's always been... uh, let's call it "vague" :rolling_eyes: about their beers' ingredients. Their 200th Anniversary book in 1986 has a brewing diagram that doesn't show corn, or a cereal cooker, etc., and the text says "...what we call beer is made primarily from malted barley sometimes supplemented in some brews by other cereal grains such as corn or rice." OK, thanks.
     
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  20. HorseheadsHophead

    HorseheadsHophead Grand Pooh-Bah (3,732) Sep 15, 2014 Colorado
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    Shock Top and Blue Moon LMAO!
     
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