Where to draw the line...

My philosophy when it comes to this kinda thing is "You drink what you want to drink, and I'll do the same". There is enough room for everyone, except people who "splurge" on Bud Light Platinum. I hope their pillows are always warm.

 

Sales declined when customer stopped consuming it because they couldn’t contain their laughter when attempting to order it.

 

It didn't stop Jim Koch from reviving the style in the late 1990s:

 

Parenthetical to the OP’s questions, and in reaction to much of this thread, I sometimes feel as if I’m in a very small minority of beer drinkers who really like traditional styles like a Dortmunder, or Grisette, but also quite enjoy a Pastry Stout or a fruited NEIPA. Am I alone in this?

What I find perplexing about the current world of beer is the increasing ubiquity of the kind of brewery that focuses almost solely on Hazy IPAs, Flavoured stouts, fruited kettle sours, etc. At least around here, when one of these types of breweries releases a traditional Pilsner or a Kolsch, it is almost always much better than the Pilsners made by the less adventurous/more staid local breweries.

Does the experimentation and pushing of boundaries make brewers better brewers generally?

 

@Resistance88 , your two posts are not really compatible to me. In your second post you are highlighting a line between something we would and wouldn't call beer based on ingredients... rather than the absence of a line.

Your bread example also illustrates how lines are drawn. "Cuz it's still bread" indicates this. If someone asked you if you wanted some bread, and they handed you a piece of sourdough bread with olives in it, you might not be confused. On the other hand, if someone asked you if you wanted some bread, and they handed you some olives stuffed with sourdough bread (rather than pimento, lemon or cheese), you might be very confused why they'd call that "bread" even though the ingredients are the same as the first example. The difference is with what is being put into what.

My example might sound silly or extreme, but I don't think it is. I think that limiting the discussion to things like cookie-flavored beer is too narrow. The government and everybody here has a line between beer and not-beer (albeit not necessarily clear, pinpointable or shared) even if they don't realize it.

I realize I'm guilty of taking your posts too seriously if you don't care about the topic, but the fact that you are posting shows that you do care a bit.

 

I've never even gone to Long Live. No interest. I'm not huge on IPAs, I definitely love them, but my whole beer world doesn't center around them. And when I do want one, I want them to be less than 8% abv and not particularly hazy or "juicy." In short, I'm not their target customer, ha ha.

 

I get it. It's definitely my favorite RI brewery when it comes to hazy IPAs. That's 80% of what they do. I had one of the Frozie Cups at the brewery about a year ago - couldn't believe the appearance - unbelievably thick, almost frozen solid. Thought there was something wrong with it. Nope - that's the deal with the Frozie Cups (ha). Not for me.

 

Yeah, that sounds like something I'd pass on.

 

My line is incredibly simple:
It doesn't matter what's added; what matters is how it's done. If the end result is overbearing, one dimensional and juvenile it's on the wrong side of the line...

..99.5% of the time.

 

The line moves faster than the beer does. Drink what you'd like, who cares how it's defined? I like everything from the most basic and traditional to weird and modern

 

Yeah and even the Feds can't agree. The TTB has to use this definition:

While the Internal Revenue Code (and, so, the FDA) uses another, which allows for "beers" to be brewed without hops and with a substitute for malted barley:

The line I draw is: What is beer I'll drink/won't drink.

 

We should recreate it for Thanksgiving with a turkey instead of chicken, and add some cranberries to the fruit/spice mix. Now THAT"S extreme.

 

I find some satisfaction in also liking what beer was meant to be . Some experiments may well be thrown in too.

 

I don' think anything has stopped this man from brewing things I do not want to drink

 

A line or boundary is an artificial construct of the human mind. I've spent many hours contemplating this concept but am still trapped inside my own fake wall

 

I think part of my frustration with the desert stouts and slush puppy ipas is that it always makes me assume that the brewer can’t brew a decent Pilsner or porter. I’m not saying that’s a fair assumption at all, in fact, I’m sure I’m way out of line with it. These brewers probably can hold their own with many styles. But, as a shitty home brewer myself, I know that brewing the “simple” beers can be extraordinarily complex. As a result the brewers with nine taps of fruit infused dipas remind me of the dudes at the drum shop who can play Moby Dick from beginning to end but if you ask them to play the groove on Cold Sweat they piss themselves. Shout out to @LesDewitt4beer and @tasterschoice62 who are two others that will appreciate that joke.

Said a different way, I recently went to Notch brewing in Brighton with my wife. When we walked in and saw the menu I said to my wife, “these people are real brewers.” I know, I know, there’s a lot of brewers out their who will get bent out of shape by such a comment. I said it in jest, but it does tap into a portion of me, and possibly others, that thinks there are brewers who are just trying to make a few bucks no matter what they have to churn out and there are brewers that want to make ends meet without conforming to the diminishing maturity level of craft brew fans. To be clear, there’s nothing wrong with either of these approaches. These brewers are in it to make a living after all. And each most certainly has varying levels of financial stressors and obligations. It’s just that I’ll spend my time and money with the second of those two folks. Again, not trying to shit on what anyone likes here. I’m sure there are many a “traditional” beer enthusiast that thinks my love of a good coffee stout is a crime against humanity.

I enjoy this discussion as I think there is a growing divide among craft fans. Cheers to the OP for an interesting conversation.

 

You makr a great point and I have no rebuttal
You're Lisa and I'm Bart

 

Upvoted for the drum joke.

I'm not sure why you'd think less of the brewer though. I wouldn't think less of a BBQ pit master who serves their BBQ with sauce (true BBQ meat should never need sauce.) Some places serve their BBQ smoothered in sauce. Is this a reason to think less of the pit master? Have they done such a poor job that they have to cover it up? Or is simply a business decision?

There certainly is something to be said for someone who can perform a traditional art masterfully, but it's not a reason to look down on another.

 

My own personal criteria for what makes a beer a beer is barley, yeast, hops and water. One or two adjuncts and I'll call it a flavored beer. Once there are more than say three different flavorings or additives I hesitate to call it a beer. Maybe it's a peanut butter marshmallow coffee cheesecake type liquid that once resembled a stout. I'm unsympathetic in my own rigidness. I like seeing what a brewer can do with just four ingredients. I'm 29 but I feel like I'm 500 years old when I walk into the beer store and wonder what kind of syrupy concoction is kept underneath all of the Neon colored cans I see.