American...Hefeweizen?

Discussion in 'Beer Talk' started by JZH1000, Mar 3, 2022.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
Page 5 of 8
  1. AlcahueteJ

    AlcahueteJ Grand Pooh-Bah (3,242) Dec 4, 2004 Massachusetts
    Society Pooh-Bah

    Ha, I would also recommend you drink while watching the South Park movie. Great movie though.
     
    #81 AlcahueteJ, Mar 7, 2022
    SFACRKnight likes this.
  2. JackHorzempa

    JackHorzempa Grand Pooh-Bah (3,375) Dec 15, 2005 Pennsylvania
    Society Pooh-Bah

    Yup, I watched that movie.

    That movie's 'claim to fame': "The 81-minute movie contains 399 swear words, 128 offensive gestures, and 221 acts of violence."

    Cheers!

    P.S. I suppose politically incorrect statements is a tough metric to define/count?
     
    #82 JackHorzempa, Mar 7, 2022
    SFACRKnight, AlcahueteJ and Rug like this.
  3. John_M

    John_M Grand High Pooh-Bah (6,849) Oct 25, 2003 Washington
    Mod Team Society Pooh-Bah Trader

    I don't know if it's necessary to be completely drunk while watching Team America, but a couple beers before or while watching would likely not be a bad idea.
     
    #83 John_M, Mar 7, 2022
    SFACRKnight, IPAExpert69, AlcahueteJ and 1 other person like this.
  4. steveh

    steveh Grand Pooh-Bah (4,174) Oct 8, 2003 Illinois
    Society Pooh-Bah

    Why wouldn't you? "Mit Hefe," after all.

    Get it on draft and you gots no choice. :wink:
     
    #84 steveh, Mar 7, 2022
    AlcahueteJ and Bitterbill like this.
  5. JackHorzempa

    JackHorzempa Grand Pooh-Bah (3,375) Dec 15, 2005 Pennsylvania
    Society Pooh-Bah

    Everythings Better with Beer! :beers:

    Cheers!
     
    #85 JackHorzempa, Mar 7, 2022
    Rug likes this.
  6. beardown2489

    beardown2489 Pooh-Bah (1,966) Oct 5, 2012 Illinois
    Pooh-Bah

    Many would say hazy IPA is a front to IPA, some would say milkshake ipa is an afront to hazy ipa shrug.

    I agree words should carry more weight than they do. But they don’t. It’s something you just have to figure out on your own

    last night I saw a picture of a hazy cold ipa from Hacienda. Can’t do anything about it
     
    #86 beardown2489, Mar 7, 2022
  7. John_M

    John_M Grand High Pooh-Bah (6,849) Oct 25, 2003 Washington
    Mod Team Society Pooh-Bah Trader

    Very true, but I think that's especially the case with this movie. You'll see what I mean when you watch it.

    "NOW TAKE YOUR WEAPONS OF MASS DESTRUCTION AND GO!!!"

    (In my best Kim Jong-il voice)
     
    #87 John_M, Mar 7, 2022
    SFACRKnight, JackHorzempa and AlcahueteJ like this.
  8. AlcahueteJ

    AlcahueteJ Grand Pooh-Bah (3,242) Dec 4, 2004 Massachusetts
    Society Pooh-Bah

    Ha, well that movie too. I actually mistyped and meant to say “Team America”. But beers should be consumed for probably all Matt Stone and Trey Parker movies.

    Didn’t Sierra Nevada used to ship and store kegs of Kellerweis upside down for this purpose?
     
    #88 AlcahueteJ, Mar 8, 2022
    SFACRKnight likes this.
  9. steveh

    steveh Grand Pooh-Bah (4,174) Oct 8, 2003 Illinois
    Society Pooh-Bah

    Never heard that, but I've had plenty of Weizen vom Fass, on both sides of the Atlantic, to know the yeast suspension is pretty present.

    And tasty. :slight_smile:
     
    #89 steveh, Mar 8, 2022
    Bitterbill and AlcahueteJ like this.
  10. JackHorzempa

    JackHorzempa Grand Pooh-Bah (3,375) Dec 15, 2005 Pennsylvania
    Society Pooh-Bah

    Yes, I posted about this in a past thread (quoting Bill Manley):

    “Scott, you might be interested in knowing that the majority of the haze of Sierra Nevada Kellerweis is due to protein vs. yeast. Bill Manley posted on this topic in a past thread:

    “Even for a beer like Kellerweis, which is quite hazy, the majority of the haze still comes from protein. We make sure kegs are shipped upside-down from us to the bar specifically so that when the keg is flipped for tapping the haze will cascade back down into the beer and give a more uniform appearance.”

    https://www.beeradvocate.com/commun...rough-a-microscope.397142/page-3#post-4624150

    Cheers!
     
    #90 JackHorzempa, Mar 8, 2022
    SFACRKnight and AlcahueteJ like this.
  11. AlcahueteJ

    AlcahueteJ Grand Pooh-Bah (3,242) Dec 4, 2004 Massachusetts
    Society Pooh-Bah

    From Bill Manley:

    “Even for a beer like Kellerweis, which is quite hazy, the majority of the haze still comes from protein. We make sure kegs are shipped upside-down from us to the bar specifically so that when the keg is flipped for tapping the haze will cascade back down into the beer and give a more uniform appearance.”

    https://www.beeradvocate.com/commun...rough-a-microscope.397142/page-3#post-4624150

    Also found a reference to Troegs doing the same thing.

    Knew I had heard it before.

    Edit: @JackHorzempa beat me to it!
     
    #91 AlcahueteJ, Mar 8, 2022
    Bitterbill, SFACRKnight and steveh like this.
  12. zid

    zid Grand Pooh-Bah (3,132) Feb 15, 2010 New York
    BA4LYFE Society Pooh-Bah Trader

    Yeast dilutes the taste... to answer your question below (and to give @AlcahueteJ what he wants :wink:)... but that take is just me (in the extreme minority). :slight_smile:
     
    #92 zid, Mar 8, 2022
    Bitterbill, SFACRKnight and AlcahueteJ like this.
  13. steveh

    steveh Grand Pooh-Bah (4,174) Oct 8, 2003 Illinois
    Society Pooh-Bah

    Thanks for the clarification. :wink:
     
    #93 steveh, Mar 8, 2022
    Bitterbill, SFACRKnight, zid and 1 other person like this.
  14. IPAExpert69

    IPAExpert69 Savant (1,065) Aug 2, 2017 Pennsylvania

    Would be my substance of choice for this movie as well :joy:

    You will lose track watching Team America World Police, it's essentially every single line.
     
    #94 IPAExpert69, Mar 8, 2022
    AlcahueteJ, Rug, JackHorzempa and 1 other person like this.
  15. Roguer

    Roguer Grand High Pooh-Bah (7,811) Mar 25, 2013 Connecticut
    Mod Team Society Pooh-Bah Trader

    I think there's a difference between American Hefeweizen and American-Style Hefeweizen.

    The former is a German-style Hefe brewed in the US. The latter is ... what, exactly?

    We already have American Wheat Ale (both pale and dark). I feel if you're making an "American" style take on a Hefe - whatever that means to you - then that falls under the American Wheat Ale category, kind of by definition.

    If you're making a traditional Hefe, regardless of where your brewery is located, I think it's a Hefe. If you're departing from tradition (say, with a hefty dry hop or something), then it's American. I don't think we need some 'tweener.
     
    #95 Roguer, Mar 8, 2022
    Bitterbill, PapaGoose03, unlikelyspiderperson and 1 other person like this.
  16. steveh

    steveh Grand Pooh-Bah (4,174) Oct 8, 2003 Illinois
    Society Pooh-Bah

    Well, not really.

    https://www.beeradvocate.com/beer/styles/93/

    Most Ami breweries I know who make a German-style Hefeweizen label it as such.

    Most. :rolling_eyes:
     
    #96 steveh, Mar 8, 2022
    Bitterbill likes this.
  17. Roguer

    Roguer Grand High Pooh-Bah (7,811) Mar 25, 2013 Connecticut
    Mod Team Society Pooh-Bah Trader


    Forgive me, but I fail to see what, exactly, you're highlighting as a disagreement. In fact, you seem to have chimed in with, "Not really," and then linked style guidelines (well, you linked one - here's both of them) that agree with me.

    https://www.beeradvocate.com/beer/styles/89/

    https://www.beeradvocate.com/beer/styles/93/

    From the style guidelines alone (certainly not all inclusive), American Pale Wheat Ales range to more than double the IBU of Hefeweizen, and "are reminiscent of a Hefeweizen in appearance, unless filtered." Reminiscent; may be filtered; can run to more than double the bitterness. Clearly not the same brew.

    Further: "Hefeweizens are typified by little hop bitterness," as opposed to the American Pale Wheat Ale: "Hop character could be low or fairly high, but most examples are moderate in bitterness." Again, we see that these are not the same expression.

    To me, this fairly clearly distinguishes two different styles: one, a German style of beer (not exclusively brewed in Germany, or even Bavaria), and the other, an Americanized version of that. A traditional Hefe brewed in the US would still be labeled as a Hefe, not as an American Pale Wheat Ale.

    The highly-rated Live Oak is a good example as such:
    https://www.beeradvocate.com/beer/profile/383/1062/

    Note: Live Oak's Hefe is listed as a Hefeweizen, not American Pale Wheat Ale. Bell's Oberon (https://www.beeradvocate.com/beer/profile/287/1094/) is listed as the latter. It's almost as though they are different beers, stylistically.

    So again: I'm not sure what you're disagreeing with. Very clearly, we've established (as a community) and accepted that American-brewed Hefes can still very much be labeled as Hefeweizen. However, departing from the style guidelines - in other words, an American spin on the style outside of traditional characteristics - warrants characterization as an American Pale Wheat Ale.

    Am I missing something?
     
    #97 Roguer, Mar 8, 2022
    Rug, Bitterbill, PapaGoose03 and 2 others like this.
  18. steveh

    steveh Grand Pooh-Bah (4,174) Oct 8, 2003 Illinois
    Society Pooh-Bah

    American-Style Hefeweizen and American Hefeweizen are the same. From a long while back. All I'm saying.
     
    #98 steveh, Mar 8, 2022
    Last edited: Mar 8, 2022
    Bitterbill likes this.
  19. Roguer

    Roguer Grand High Pooh-Bah (7,811) Mar 25, 2013 Connecticut
    Mod Team Society Pooh-Bah Trader


    I don't see that from what you linked - all I'm saying. :wink:

    I agree with the OP: if you're putting an "American" spin on a Hefe, aren't you producing an American Wheat Ale (pale or dark)? If you're not, and you're just producing a Hefe in the US, aren't you producing, well, a Hefe? What makes it an "American-Style Hefeweizen?"

    I don't see anywhere - recently, or from a long while back - that American-made Hefes can't be considered traditional Hefes. Similarly, the American Wheat Ale sub-styles seem to already incorporate "American innovation" on the Hefe style. The style literally already exists.

    What exactly is an American-style Hefeweizen? If they mean it's a Hefe, then the style exists. If they mean it's a twist (perhaps a hoppier take), that style exists, too (and they're not identical). Throwing "American-style" onto the label simply muddies the waters unnecessarily, and it doesn't tell you what to expect from the beer. (How about "American-style Czech pilsner? Is that an AAL, a Czech Pilsner, an American lager, a light lager, an India Pale Lager .... you get the point.)

    Unlike you, I wouldn't argue they are the same thing. Rather, I'd argue there is no such thing as an American-Style Hefeweizen - or rather, it could mean one of two such things, but they're not the same.
     
    #99 Roguer, Mar 8, 2022
    Rug and PapaGoose03 like this.
  20. steveh

    steveh Grand Pooh-Bah (4,174) Oct 8, 2003 Illinois
    Society Pooh-Bah

    1D. American Wheat Beer
    Overall Impression:     A pale, refreshing grainy, doughy, or
    bready wheat beer with a clean fermentation profile and a
    variable hop character and bitterness. Its lighter body and
    higher carbonation contribute to its easy-drinking nature.

    Comments: Different variations exist, from an easy-drinking
    fairly sweet beer to a dry, aggressively-hopped beer with a
    strong wheat flavor.

    History: An American craft beer adaptation of the Weissbier
    style using a cleaner yeast and more hops, first produced by
    Anchor in 1984 and later widely popularized by Widmer.*

    Commercial Examples: Bell’s Oberon, Boulevard Unfiltered
    Wheat Beer, GoodLife Sweet As! Pacific Ale, Goose Island 312
    Urban Wheat Ale, Widmer Hefeweizen.

    *First one I ever tried, back around 1992, and yeah -- I agree with the OP too, it was far from what I was expecting when I saw Hefeweizen. That said, it's what's developed into the American Wheat, or America-Style Wheat -- Hefeweizen we debate today.
     
    #100 steveh, Mar 8, 2022
    Bitterbill, PapaGoose03 and Roguer like this.
Page 5 of 8
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.