Cask is building on craft ideas

Discussion in 'Beer Talk' started by M-Fox24, Jul 1, 2022.

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  1. M-Fox24

    M-Fox24 Grand Pooh-Bah (3,941) Mar 17, 2013 New Jersey
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    This article by Pete Brown touches on cask ale "joining craft rather than trying to beat it or copy it...breeding new English hops."
    https://www.morningadvertiser.co.uk...le-can-use-some-hops-better-than-kegged-beers
     
    MrOH, AlcahueteJ, champ103 and 3 others like this.
  2. JackHorzempa

    JackHorzempa Grand Pooh-Bah (3,375) Dec 15, 2005 Pennsylvania
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    There is a claim in the above linked article that the new hop variety Harlequin expresses its flavors ‘better’ on cask delivery vs. keg. I would be willing to conduct a side-by-side tasting (if it was available to me) to see if this claim it truthful.

    I have had the opportunity to drink a few hoppy beers side-by-side on cask and keg and the kegged version was consistently hands down the better beer (i.e., more expressive of the hop aroma/flavor). I am distrustful of this article’s claim.

    I am a fan of beers served on cask of certain beer styles – Mild Ale, Bitter Ale, some Stouts/Porters.

    Cheers!
     
  3. champ103

    champ103 Grand High Pooh-Bah (6,296) Sep 3, 2007 Texas
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    Cask conditioning is a well defined process, and near perfect for the styles that use it most. Drink it and enjoy it for what it is. Just make good beer, condition it correctly, serve it correctly, and everything will be fine. If people think it is backward-looking or an old man drink or whatever, then fine let them drink the new shiny thing, I don't really care. There is room for both, but those people will be missing out.

    As a side note, I have had so called Summer/Golden Ales on cask that are indeed pretty hoppy with bright flavors. The St. Austell Anthem sounds like a really good beer, but in that vain, and nothing that is particularly new IMO. Though I would still love to try it.
     
  4. JackHorzempa

    JackHorzempa Grand Pooh-Bah (3,375) Dec 15, 2005 Pennsylvania
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    I agree 100% there.
    Well, here's the thing: if sales of beer served via cask continue to decline then maybe there will no longer be any cask beer in another decade (or two). The Craft Beer Channel dudes filmed a series of videos on the topic "Keep Cask Alive" (see trailer below). If producing hoppy Golden Ales encourages people to ask for/drink cask ale that is a 'good thing' IMO.
    If I were to ever see this beer on cask I too would order it but I seriously doubt that I will ever see that beer.

    Cheers to Cask Beer!

     
  5. champ103

    champ103 Grand High Pooh-Bah (6,296) Sep 3, 2007 Texas
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    Cool, I'll have to watch more of those Keep Cask Alive videos, thanks.

    I certainly agree with what said.
     
  6. JackHorzempa

    JackHorzempa Grand Pooh-Bah (3,375) Dec 15, 2005 Pennsylvania
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    I would encourage you to watch all 5 episodes. They were very well done with lots of cool stories.

    Cheers!
     
  7. moodenba

    moodenba Pooh-Bah (2,502) Feb 2, 2015 New York
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    The article discusses the craft and cask beer situation in Britain. For them, describing it as a kind of competition is reasonable. Here in the US, cask availability is primarily via promotion by craft cask brewers. In the US craft arena, cask has become even rarer (at least in my area) because most craft consumers prefer other offerings.
     
  8. steveh

    steveh Grand Pooh-Bah (4,174) Oct 8, 2003 Illinois
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    I had Hopback Summer Lightning from cask at the brewery pub on my UK trip (too many years ago) and liked it a lot. I remember it being hoppier than most of the English Real Ales I'd been trying, but it still held the smooth, drinkable characteristics of a cask ale.

    My local favorite just brewed one of these "Golden Ales" and I wasn't sure I liked it until I remembered Summer Lightning and made the connection -- triggered the memory and changed my perception.

    This brewery has the beer on cask at their taproom and I'm anxious to try it in comparison.

    And yeah, many of the newer, small brewers around here are dabbling with traditional cask conditioning and it's exciting to see a comeback.
     
  9. Reidrover

    Reidrover Grand Pooh-Bah (4,886) Jan 14, 2003 Oregon
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    Yes unfortunately. I always refer to it as natural beer. Lucky i live in Salem OR were a guy from Derbyshire keeps it alive (along with mushy peas). Other attempts at cask from regular brewers have been less than worthy
     
  10. BruChef

    BruChef Maven (1,277) Nov 8, 2009 New York
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    Years ago I had Nugget Nectar, and on a separate occasion, DFH 60 minute, side by side on cask and keg. Keg was always the winner for me.I’ve always felt like hoppy American styles just aren’t meant for cask format.
     
  11. unlikelyspiderperson

    unlikelyspiderperson Grand Pooh-Bah (3,966) Mar 12, 2013 California
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    I think that the man being interviewed at the end of the article nailed it when they noted that the way cask is presented to (and I'd add perceived by) the public needs to be worked on. Assuming the goal is to broaden the customer base interested in beers served on cask.

    I don't know how brewers do that, but I don't think that the specifics of what's in the cask are the main issue (obviously there's got to be a basic quality to the beer in the cask). There's an old world aspect to it that, for whatever reasons, doesn't seem to have morphed into mystique the way that open fermentation, spontaneous fermentation, and aging in various wooden vessels has.
     
  12. steveh

    steveh Grand Pooh-Bah (4,174) Oct 8, 2003 Illinois
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    There was a time, albeit many years ago, when cask ale had that mystique. My home-brew club planned annual trips to the UK just to seek out Real Ale.

    I have no deep research as to why it peaked then fell, or why it never caught on in the U.S. for long (the Chicago Real Ale Festival was always an event to anticipate*), but maybe the process was too complicated? More so than barrel aging or adding weird ingredients as "innovation?" Don't know.

    I do know that I like the tradition and product of cask conditioning and haven't found a Real Ale that was off-putting.

    *https://realbeer.com/library/archives/glbn/9712/realalefest.html
     
  13. JackHorzempa

    JackHorzempa Grand Pooh-Bah (3,375) Dec 15, 2005 Pennsylvania
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    Serving Cask Ale properly is challenging on a number of fronts:

    Cellaring at the Pub (or Restaurant)

    Cask Ale is not just a ‘product’ of the brewery but also of the Retailer (e.g., Pub) since the beer needs expert handling at the Retailer prior to serving the beer. The Cask will arrive to the Retailer in a soon to be ready condition but it is the responsibility of the Retailer’s Cellarperson to manage the Cask and determine when the beer is ready to be served.

    Cask beer is only ‘good’ for a few days after being tapped for serving (i.e,, a short shelflife)

    After the Cask beer is tapped, air (oxygen) is exposed to the beer and after just a few days the beer will be ‘off’ due to staling/oxidation. If the Cask beer is not fully consumed in those few days there is wastage (lost revenue).

    Needless to say, but for a Retailer serving beer that is kegged is just waaaay easier and financially more lucrative. The only incentive for a Retailer (e.g., Pub) to serve beer in Cask is if there is a very robust demand for this sort of delivery and unfortunately with Cask beer being viewed in the UK as something your grandfather would drink there is not as much demand for Cask beer (and as the grandparents die off…).

    Cheers!

    P.S. You can watch this video to learn more:

     
    #13 JackHorzempa, Jul 2, 2022
    Last edited: Jul 2, 2022
  14. unlikelyspiderperson

    unlikelyspiderperson Grand Pooh-Bah (3,966) Mar 12, 2013 California
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    My best guess is that it's a fairly intensive process for proprietors to handle properly so it takes a dedicated owner and staff to operate well.

    My few experiences with cask and firkins haven't been off putting, but they've been generally uninspiring. The most enjoyable have been trying various American beers side by side between keg and cask (and keg has always been my preference). But I'd like to revisit it now with a more developed palate for beer and in a setting where proper styles are being served by a skillfull celarman.

    I've definitely grown to appreciate the whole culture around the serving method
     
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  15. steveh

    steveh Grand Pooh-Bah (4,174) Oct 8, 2003 Illinois
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    Probably the biggest factor right there.

    If you read that 1997 article I linked, it has some real interesting talk about "selling" cask ale -- even to the point where they got people real excited about it.

    A lack of the above mentioned dedication and the passing of a fad (at least here in the US) were probably why real ale has fallen off.

    The thing is, I remember a local spot that really got into having a couple Real Ales on the beer engines, but they got casks from brewers who provided them ready-to-tap, so there was little responsibility on the tavern's part -- and I enjoyed drinking them all the time.
     
  16. moodenba

    moodenba Pooh-Bah (2,502) Feb 2, 2015 New York
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    Actually, cask beer was dying off in Britain in the 60s. Campaign for Real Ale (CAMRA: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Campaign_for_Real_Ale) was established 50 years ago to maintain/revive cask beer. At that time a different cohort of oldtimers, the fathers of today's grandfathers, were abandoning cask. Actually, the brewers were also downplaying cask, Keg was probably cheaper than cask to produce and distribute, and the pub retail price was higher.
     
  17. JrGtr

    JrGtr Pooh-Bah (1,775) Apr 13, 2006 Massachusetts
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    There's still a Cask fest here in the Boston area, called NERAX They haven't run the fest in a couple years due to "all this" but they've almost single handedly kept it alive around here, and they regularly consult with restaurants and such that want to have a cask engine on.
    Also regarding the original point, or one of them, is that the venn diagram of Cask versus Craft is very wide, and the venn of cask versus BMC is very very small. I don't think i'd ever want to see or try a cask-conditioned Budweiser, or Corona Light or something.
    The problem with cask, as others mentioned, is that "tranditional serving" is non pressurized, with atmosphere air vented in, so the beer only lasts a few days before becoming an oxidized mess. That said, some styles do do well with it, at least in the short term - over the 20-ish years I've been going to the fest, there's times I've had the same been multiple days, and sometimes it's better with the time. Obviously maltier styles, not hoppy ones.
    But there's plenty of times that i've been at a restaurant and they claim to have a cask beer. I| learned long ago to ask about it, many times they have no idea about it - once I asked how long it'd be on, and the bartender said, "oh, a couple weeks, I think. Do you want one?" yeah. No for me, on that one.
    But cask does require educating the servers, and the customers; it's still just seen as "warm and flat" versus cellar temp and naturally carbed.
     
  18. JackHorzempa

    JackHorzempa Grand Pooh-Bah (3,375) Dec 15, 2005 Pennsylvania
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    In the US it is not uncommon for retailers that serve cask beer to use a cask breather which maintains a low level of CO2 on the cask as it is being served and thereby the beer is not exposed to air (oxygen). The benefit of using a cask breather is that the beer will stay 'good' for a longer period of time (e.g., several weeks and maybe months). The negative of using a cask breather is that the beer will not 'evolve' over the few days since taping; some beer consumers prefer a cask beer 1-2 days after taping for the extra complexity that exposure to air (oxygen) adds to the beer.

    You can read more here:

    https://beerandbrewing.com/dictionary/3qvzokTqO1/

    Cheers!

    P.S. FWIW if the only choices available to me are a cask beer using a cask breather or no cask beer I personally would prefer the former.
     
  19. JackHorzempa

    JackHorzempa Grand Pooh-Bah (3,375) Dec 15, 2005 Pennsylvania
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    Black Sheep Brewery is leveraging social media, in a lighthearted manner, to promote cask beer:



    Cheers!
     
  20. moodenba

    moodenba Pooh-Bah (2,502) Feb 2, 2015 New York
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    Yes, I (and probaevebly most north Americans) aren't cask connoiseurs. I like the slightly warmer temperature and lower carbonation of cask. The details of flavor evolvement aren't a real issue for me (especially since tasting cask is a once a year experience).
     
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