How about differentiation between non-alcoholic beer styles?

Idea Discussion in 'BeerAdvocate Talk' started by beer_beer, Aug 23, 2022.

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  1. beer_beer

    beer_beer Pooh-Bah (2,306) Feb 13, 2018 Finland
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    Saw that Untappd has started differentiation between styles also with NA. They are of course more general, could be helpful though: lager, pale ale, IPA, sour, stout/porter, wheat beer, shandy/radler, other. I think the main style needs to still be NA, non-alcoholic defines the style the most, but how about splitting them up in substyles like these also on here?
     
  2. Todd

    Todd Founder (13,518) Aug 23, 1996 Finland
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    I definitely have plans for no-alcohol beers, but it won't involve creating a bunch of new styles.
     
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  3. beer_beer

    beer_beer Pooh-Bah (2,306) Feb 13, 2018 Finland
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    Another road to take would obviously be to just integrate the different NA beers into the existing styles, and quit the NA / low alcohol style.
     
  4. BBThunderbolt

    BBThunderbolt Grand High Pooh-Bah (7,846) Sep 24, 2007 Kiribati
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    Well, if someone were looking just for NA brews, it would get tedious to have to sort through each style, looking for them. Keeping an overall NA category would keep things simpler.
     
  5. beer_beer

    beer_beer Pooh-Bah (2,306) Feb 13, 2018 Finland
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    One possibilty would be to include the beer style in the NA beer names, if keeping only one overall NA style. I have just started to add the style in my review notes, so I know what style I've been drinking :slight_smile:. Feels a bit like a "do it yourself" solution though.

    If integrating the NA beers into the existing styles you should be able to find them through some kind of search, agreed.
     
    #5 beer_beer, Aug 23, 2022
    Last edited: Aug 23, 2022
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  6. PapaGoose03

    PapaGoose03 Grand High Pooh-Bah (6,057) May 30, 2005 Michigan
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    But I rate NA beers relative to other NA beers in the same brewing style, so my 4.0 NA IPAs shouldn't get merged into the regular IPA grouping. Relative to regular IPAs, the NA versions should be closer to 2.0. It's apples and oranges, and my existing ratings will become false information.
     
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  7. BigIronH

    BigIronH Grand Pooh-Bah (3,762) Oct 31, 2019 Michigan
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    I see the idea of categories as a step in the right direction as far as organization. That seems to be my go to method for many things though.
     
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  8. beer_beer

    beer_beer Pooh-Bah (2,306) Feb 13, 2018 Finland
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    #8 beer_beer, Aug 27, 2022
    Last edited: Aug 27, 2022
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  9. beer_beer

    beer_beer Pooh-Bah (2,306) Feb 13, 2018 Finland
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    Also checked RateBeer, their low/no alcohol is divided only into pale, dark, wheat and then radler/shandy. Would say a bit too few categories, if going for it.
     
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  10. PapaGoose03

    PapaGoose03 Grand High Pooh-Bah (6,057) May 30, 2005 Michigan
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    Those style divisions sound logical and probably cover the entire spectrum of what is produced in the NA category. I can't say that I've seen American examples of sour/wild and lager yet, and I suppose the specialty category is there for anything that doesn't fit into the other categories.

    I'd support BA adopting this sub-style list.
     
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  11. unlikelyspiderperson

    unlikelyspiderperson Grand Pooh-Bah (3,966) Mar 12, 2013 California
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    What's the difference between "dark" and "stout/porter"? And also why is "pale" separated out? Wouldn't any beer be emulating either a pale ale or a pale lager?

    Seems like if ratebeer added "sour/wild" that list would well cover the style
     
  12. beer_beer

    beer_beer Pooh-Bah (2,306) Feb 13, 2018 Finland
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    Good points. I do think though that bottom fermented and top fermented with their main taste characters still is "holy", leading to a lager category. The overlapping of course is always there, but doesn't take away the whole usefulness of the categorisation / style division. And not having an IPA category/style nowadays, well...
     
    #12 beer_beer, Aug 28, 2022
    Last edited: Aug 28, 2022
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  13. PapaGoose03

    PapaGoose03 Grand High Pooh-Bah (6,057) May 30, 2005 Michigan
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    You jogged my memory a bit with your question. I recall in the last major thread on NA beers that the point was raised (probably by @jesskidden) that the Feds (or some authority) ruled that a NA beer cannot carry the name of any style that is known to have a level of alcohol in it (or something like that), so the IPA, Stout and Porter likely should not be used for style naming. (I verified via emailing Athletic Brewing that was the reason their Stout was renamed to Dark.)
     
  14. beer_beer

    beer_beer Pooh-Bah (2,306) Feb 13, 2018 Finland
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    Maybe it's allowed if there is the combination NA-IPA? Untappd is "getting away" with it. Does support own substyles for NA though, not just integrating them among all beers.

    NA has this: in a way it's totally different not having buzz potential, on the other hand I think taste gradually can't be easily distinguished from beer with alcohol, warranting proper style division. Naturally taking into account the limited market, not dividing into 100+ styles :slight_smile:. The absolute main ones could do as a good compromise.
     
    #14 beer_beer, Aug 28, 2022
    Last edited: Aug 28, 2022
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  15. PapaGoose03

    PapaGoose03 Grand High Pooh-Bah (6,057) May 30, 2005 Michigan
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    Yeah, as long as the NA brewers continue to call a stout a stout, etal, it's hard not to follow their terminology.
     
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  16. jesskidden

    jesskidden Grand Pooh-Bah (3,145) Aug 10, 2005 New Jersey
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    [​IMG]
    Further stated in 27 CFR 7.145(c)
    .
    It has been speculated (but not confirmed?) that "IPA" has been allowed for NA's since the TTB's list of class or type designation only lists "India Pale Ale" not the initials (BAM Chapter 4) If you notice most beers labeled "IPA" will also say "Ale" or "India Pale Ale" elsewhere on the label.
    Untappd is a website, isn't it? Do they also have a line of NA beers? (Can't say I follow either NA's or that website). If not, they are not required to get label approval or otherwise follow US Federal alcoholic beverage laws.
     
    #16 jesskidden, Aug 28, 2022
    Last edited: Aug 28, 2022
  17. beer_beer

    beer_beer Pooh-Bah (2,306) Feb 13, 2018 Finland
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    Untappd is a beer rating site, no own beers ad far as I know. Ok, so it's necessary to use "code language" on the bottles / cans and probably on the brewers' websites for the products below 0.5 ABV. The TTB Bootcamp doesn't seem to prohibit using for example the terms "NA lager" and "NA stout" on beer rating and discussion sites, like ours, or else on the internet?
     
    #17 beer_beer, Aug 28, 2022
    Last edited: Aug 28, 2022
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  18. beer_beer

    beer_beer Pooh-Bah (2,306) Feb 13, 2018 Finland
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    About alcohol. It's an interesting ingredient in that it's main effect kicks in in half an hour, while tastes linger off in a minute. I think it is disputed whether you can taste alcohol at all around 5% ABV. At 10% maybe. So <0.5% ABV could very well fit into most of the regular beer styles, and the stronger ones could have some ingredient that reminds of alcohol. Should be much more doable than for example with NA whisky, more like with NA wine.
     
  19. BillAfromSoCal

    BillAfromSoCal Pooh-Bah (2,415) Aug 24, 2020 California
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    Not a fan of that idea. I support dividing NA into subgroups, but would not support comparing NA to full ABV beers of the same style, although some reviewers seem to judge NA against full ABV beers.
     
  20. Chuckdiesel24

    Chuckdiesel24 Grand Pooh-Bah (3,208) Jul 6, 2016 Illinois
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    this thread feels like trying to create a solution to something that isn't a problem.
     
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