Cask Appreciation: Piston or Gravity Dispense

Discussion in 'Beer Talk' started by M-Fox24, Nov 8, 2022.

  1. M-Fox24

    M-Fox24 Grand Pooh-Bah (3,941) Mar 17, 2013 New Jersey
    Pooh-Bah Trader

    Another appreciation thread: One dedicated to cask dispense systems (graph below), for exhibiting Real – Traditional – Ales + Lagers that are in their most organic state: Unfiltered, Unpasteurized, Naturally Carbonated


    Ale Example (Traditional Dispense via Hand-Pull or Gravity):
    • UK: Fullers London Pride
    • USA: Hogshead Chin Wag
    Lager Example (German Gravity Dispense via Anstich):
    • DE: Mahr’s Ungespundet
    • USA: Notch Ungespundet


    Howbeit, some leeway on traditional/real ale to near truism (e.g. BIB, Cask breathers, Caskerators, Lagerbier, Lambic enrollments, Alternate techniques to natural carbonation…), as sourcing ‘true craft ale’ – post pandemic – is either scarce, or comes with an economic Markup. Essentially a subsection that’s mostly dedicated to onsite experience(s), where the pint being served is in a natural state: helpful criteria, but not necessary –
    • Pub Name
    • Pub Location
    • Pub Dispense Setup/Treatment/#
    • Pub Pint
    • Pub Picture(s)
    ***Pub in this sense = Any Establishment (e.g. Lagerhaus via faß)
    ***repeat submissions are advocated & commended, given the nature of the thread

    ---


    Graphs (Sources: Micro Matic & Beverage Factory):
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    ---


    Piston Pump: Siphoned from the pub cellar (e.g. pin/firkin) & discharged through a goose-neck (swan-neck) spout
    • Stored: Pub Cellar
    • Some aliases
      • Beer Engine Piston
      • Hand-Pump
      • Hand-Pull
      • Hand-Drawn
    Gravity Dispense: Discharged directly from the cask
    • Stored: Pub Counter
    • Some variations
      • Pin/Firkin (Steel Cask): Dimensions below
      • Bayrischer Anstich (German Gravity): Anstichfaß, Holzfaß, Stichfaß
        • Often matured in (horizontal) lagering tanks, before the faß, as opposed to cask-conditioned ale
      • Flexible Cask Ale - Bit overkill, but an adequate submission nonetheless
        • Polypin/Cubitainer
        • BIB (Bag-in-Box)

    ---


    Keywords with condensed explanations - Parts/Supplements/Modifications:
    • Cask: Necessitates proper technique (e.g. Stainless Steel, Wood, Plastic, Aluminum)
    • Cask-Conditioned: Maturation on active/live yeast via secondary fermentation in the cask
    • Natural Carbonation Methods: Priming, Kräusening, Spunding
    • Shive: Top plug (Spile placement)
    • Tut: Temporary placement within the Shive
    • Hard Spile: Sealing/Equalizing
    • Soft Spile: Venting
    • Spigot: Tap: Gravity / Threaded Tap: Piston
    • Keystone: Rim plug (Spigot placement)
    • Mallet: Mallet
    • Stillage: Positions the cask (e.g. Wood, Auto/Mechanical/Spring)
    • Priming Sugars: Supplements to assist with natural carbonation
    • Fining Agents: Supplements to assist with forming a clear & bright beer (e.g. Isinglass)
    • Drip Back Systems: Auto-Bac, Auto-Vac, Economiser, or Univac per Ron Pattinson (Mostly obsolete & replaced by goose/swan-neck spouts)
    • Cask Widge: Positions the cask upright
    • Cask Sparkler: Aerates the ale/lager to create a denser head
    • Cask Breather: Aspirator that extends the life & prevents spoilage, which can deter the development
    • Caskerator: Kegerator with an upright dispense system (widge) + cask breather
    Sizes: (Imp-gal/US-gal)
    • Pin: 4.5/5.4
    • Firkin: 9/10.8 (Most Common)
    • Kilderkin: 18/21.6
    • Barrel: 36/43.2
    • Hogshead: 54/64.9
    ---


    Past & Upcoming Events:
    USA:
    Overseas:
    ---


    Auxiliaries:
     
  2. M-Fox24

    M-Fox24 Grand Pooh-Bah (3,941) Mar 17, 2013 New Jersey
    Pooh-Bah Trader

    • Odd Bird
    • New Jersey, USA
    • 1xActive Beer Engine
      • Cask-conditioned
    • Golden British-Style Pub Ale: ‘Twas Brillig
      • Grains: Floor Malted Maris Otter, Caramalt
      • Hops: Whole Leaf East Kent Goldings
      • Yeast: Omega British Ale VII
      • ABV:4.5%
      • Priming: Yes
      • Fining: No
      • Breather: Yes (low/variable usage)
      • Sparkler: On
        • Pictures: 3
      • Sparkler: Off
        • Pictures: 2

    Sparkler: On

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]




    Sparkler: Off

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     
  3. AlcahueteJ

    AlcahueteJ Grand Pooh-Bah (3,242) Dec 4, 2004 Massachusetts
    Society Pooh-Bah

    This is my beer ****.
     
  4. steveh

    steveh Grand Pooh-Bah (4,174) Oct 8, 2003 Illinois
    Society Pooh-Bah

    Yes please. :slight_smile:
     
    2beerdogs, 7clutch, ChicagoJ and 4 others like this.
  5. M-Fox24

    M-Fox24 Grand Pooh-Bah (3,941) Mar 17, 2013 New Jersey
    Pooh-Bah Trader

    Another recent visit to – hopefully – get this thread kickstarted:


    • Forest & Main
    • Pennsylvania, USA
    • 3xActive Beer Engines
      • Cask-conditioned
    • Smokey Pub Ale: Suspended Thoughts
      • Grains: Maris Otter & Crystal Malts, German Smoked Barley
      • Hops: Fuggles and Grungeist
      • Yeast: British ale yeast
      • ABV:4%
      • Sparkler: Off
        • Pictures: 2
    • Pub Stout: Fore and Aft
      • Grains: Barley, British Chocolate & Roasted Malts, Golden Naked Oats
      • Hops: Fuggles and Polaris
      • ABV:3.6%
      • Sparkler: Off
        • Pictures: 2
    • Honey Pub Ale: Dwelling Place
      • Grains: British Maris Otter & Crystal Rye Malts, Golden Naked Oats
      • Hops: Fuggles and Wolf
      • Yeast: British ale yeast
      • Additions: Honey
      • ABV:4%
      • Sparkler: On
        • Pictures: 4

    Smokey Pub Ale - Sparkler: Off

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]



    Pub Stout - Sparkler: Off

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]



    Honey Pub Ale - Sparkler: On

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     
  6. AlcahueteJ

    AlcahueteJ Grand Pooh-Bah (3,242) Dec 4, 2004 Massachusetts
    Society Pooh-Bah

    Chalkboard says 5% for this one?
     
  7. JackHorzempa

    JackHorzempa Grand Pooh-Bah (3,375) Dec 15, 2005 Pennsylvania
    Society Pooh-Bah

    To sparkle or not to sparkle, that is the question?

    I have had many cask pints of beer in Great Britain and the vast majority were served without a sparkler. I was told when visiting there that using a sparkler is a northern England thing. As discussed in the below linked article:

    “Many British beer drinkers say the debate is geographic, with the dividing line between the north and south of the country. Debenham, a southerner, says she never encounters sparklers until at least the Midlands, two-plus hours north of London.”

    The alleged advantage of using a sparkler is that it creates a ‘better’ head to the beer. I have had a few US brewery beers served using a sparkler and it seems to me the downside is that the sparkler ‘knocks out’ what limited CO2 is in the beer resulting in an even lower carbonated beer in the glass.

    From my time drinking cask ale in Great Britain I have a preference for drinking cask ales without a sparkler in place.

    Cheers!

    https://www.winemag.com/2021/03/26/sparkler-cask-ale/
     
    2beerdogs, DBosco, DefenCorps and 8 others like this.
  8. M-Fox24

    M-Fox24 Grand Pooh-Bah (3,941) Mar 17, 2013 New Jersey
    Pooh-Bah Trader

    Ya. Dwelling Place is 5%
     
    ChicagoJ, eppCOS and AlcahueteJ like this.
  9. hopfenunmaltz

    hopfenunmaltz Pooh-Bah (2,647) Jun 8, 2005 Michigan
    Pooh-Bah

    I was recently in Yorkshire for 10 days and they use sparklers to put a nice head on the ale.

    London, nope.
     
    2beerdogs, BJB13, ChicagoJ and 4 others like this.
  10. JackHorzempa

    JackHorzempa Grand Pooh-Bah (3,375) Dec 15, 2005 Pennsylvania
    Society Pooh-Bah

    Given that Yorkshire is in Northern England it stands to reason they would use sparklers there.

    Jeff, did you ever ask if the beertender would remove the sparkler for an non-sparkled pour? Is this a request they would honor?

    Do you have a preference on the pour? Do you prefer an non-sparkler pour?

    I have had many cask pours in England but in locations south of the Midlands (e.g., London, Cambridge, Oxford,...).

    I also had several cask beers in Edinburgh (Scotland) but I don't remember whether those pubs used sparklers or not.

    Cheers!
     
    2beerdogs, BJB13, ChicagoJ and 2 others like this.
  11. hopfenunmaltz

    hopfenunmaltz Pooh-Bah (2,647) Jun 8, 2005 Michigan
    Pooh-Bah

    I never asked, they know how to serve their beers.

    The beers were very good North and South. I'm not sure if theyadjust carbonation in the cask for a nonsparkler beer.

    Went to Germany afterwards and had many biers srved Bayerisch Anstisch. At Keesmann in Bamberg they had a bock release night in the couryard, and they were serving from jockey boxes. The Hellerbock was fizzy there.
     
    2beerdogs, BJB13, ChicagoJ and 6 others like this.
  12. JackHorzempa

    JackHorzempa Grand Pooh-Bah (3,375) Dec 15, 2005 Pennsylvania
    Society Pooh-Bah

    Yeah, that is a point worth considering.

    FWIW I have never heard during my conversations in Great Britain or via my readings whether the brewers of Northern England vs. Southern England use differing carbonation levels for their cask beers. Maybe the brewers of Northern England use a bit more carbonation for their cask beers to 'compensate' for the sparkler delivery?

    Cheers!
     
    2beerdogs, BJB13, ChicagoJ and 3 others like this.
  13. hopfenunmaltz

    hopfenunmaltz Pooh-Bah (2,647) Jun 8, 2005 Michigan
    Pooh-Bah

    That could be true. No way of knowing. The beers around London didn't seem to have higher carbonation without the sparklers, just less head formation.
     
    2beerdogs, BJB13, ChicagoJ and 2 others like this.
  14. slander

    slander Pooh-Bah (2,568) Nov 5, 2001 New York
    Mod Team Society Pooh-Bah

    There's a lot to take in here, but I will comment only on the list of 10 'past and upcoming events' (USA), two of which I've attended.

    One was absolutely wonderful.
    A well curated list of styles appropriate to being done on cask by people who get it.

    And the other was not.
    Fruited & hazy & pastry adjunct cask beer after beer after beer.
    What fresh hell is this?
    I can see a brewery or two going off the rails, but it seemed like the whole event was designed to murder cask.
    "Would you like to try our... ??"
    "NO! You don't do that to cask. What the phuck's the matter with you?!?!"
    I honestly don't understand how cask got perverted so.
    Broke my goddamn heart.
     
    #14 slander, Nov 9, 2022
    Last edited: Nov 9, 2022
  15. TheMattJones88

    TheMattJones88 Maven (1,372) Sep 12, 2009 Massachusetts
    Trader

    I've definitely been to some breweries in New England where the cask is just something that they've been sitting on for a while with some adjunct thrown in the cask. Always disappointing.
     
  16. zid

    zid Grand Pooh-Bah (3,132) Feb 15, 2010 New York
    BA4LYFE Society Pooh-Bah Trader

    Regarding sparklers - Some time ago I had the same cask beer at two different bars (two weeks apart). The top pic is from the bar that didn't use a sparkler. The bottom pic is from the bar that did. These two results might be extremes... and there are other variables in the mix besides the sparkler... but a fun (unintentional) comparison nonetheless. The head in the bottom pic was very loose and wasn't dense.
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     
    2beerdogs, DBosco, BJB13 and 10 others like this.
  17. JackHorzempa

    JackHorzempa Grand Pooh-Bah (3,375) Dec 15, 2005 Pennsylvania
    Society Pooh-Bah

    Chris, did you have a preference between the two beers (i.e., differing pours)?

    Cheers!
     
    2beerdogs, ChicagoJ and BigIronH like this.
  18. zid

    zid Grand Pooh-Bah (3,132) Feb 15, 2010 New York
    BA4LYFE Society Pooh-Bah Trader

    If I had them side by side and was more focused on appreciating the differences, I might have a different reaction... but under the circumstances, I can't say I found much difference. I wasn't thinking of carbonation levels at the time. I enjoyed drinking the beer w/o the sparkler a bit more. It might have felt a bit bolder in flavor, but that could have been my imagination or a result of reasons beyond the carbonation... or simply a matter of having had it first. I enjoyed the head on the sparkler version for the novelty of the presentation.
     
    2beerdogs, BJB13, ChicagoJ and 7 others like this.
  19. JackHorzempa

    JackHorzempa Grand Pooh-Bah (3,375) Dec 15, 2005 Pennsylvania
    Society Pooh-Bah

    Yes, the sparkler does indeed present a more pronounced head to the beer.

    Cheers!
     
    2beerdogs, ChicagoJ and BigIronH like this.
  20. patto1ro

    patto1ro Pooh-Bah (2,084) Apr 26, 2004 Netherlands
    Pooh-Bah

    I believe beers brewed in Yorkshire squares have a higher degree of carbonation.
     
    2beerdogs, BJB13, ChicagoJ and 4 others like this.