Elevating Premium Lager

Yes, a better quality product does imply a higher price point…. However, you still need to get the first purchase. Price it too high, it won’t last long enough in the market to gain momentum.

In the current market, higher ABV products with “moar” (highly hopped, froot smoothie, barrel aged, lots of add-junks, higher alcohol content with one or more of the preceding, etc.) will be accepted with high prices. Often, quality gets overlooked- and fomo rules the purchasing process.

Classic lagers, lower alcohol, more subtle styles don’t generally find the support. You’d need good marketing to overcome the bias against these beers so that people understand that the quality is worth the extra $. I really hope that happens, but look at the ratings bias here, particularly with the top 250 list. It’s been an uphill battle for the 19 years I’ve been on BA.

In the overall craft market- subtle beers are seen as “boring”, but who knows- maybe the tide is finally turning with the return of pilsner popularity.

 

I get the argument that if a craft brewery produces a product similar in flavor to a macro-AAL why pay more but what if instead the craft breweries decided to add notably more hops, in all three phases, to create a flavorful beer?

Cheers!

 

Permit me to point out that BA is very much a small niche of the overall craft beer consumer market.

I would suggest that this is the case for almost all craft brewed beers. Even in the most popular Juicy/Hazy IPA sub-segment there is a need for "good marketing" to distinguish your beer from the large number of competitors.

Cheers!

 

They still need to get that *repeat* purchase. Unfortunately, the craft market doesn’t generally support higher prices for beers without IPA, sour, or barrel aged somewhere in the description/name.

 

that’s part of my point- if BA’s don’t support or recognize quality in the subtle styles, it’s a bigger uphill battle with the more casual craft beer fan. No (or very few) long lines for a newly released craft lager.

 

Maybe. I've have enjoyed some craft lagers notably better than a typical AAL including Founder's Solid Gold and FireStone Walker Lager. But these had a nice honey and bread malt flavor and more toward a Helles type of flavor. I don't know of a circumstance that I'd take an "American premium lager" over any of the European counterparts. The AAL crowd will always take it for price. But in the craft world, I would be comparing it to the the European lagers, which is where I question its role.

 

Due to economies of scale I think the solution is one of the macro brewers stepping up to the plate and making an all malt beer (don't forget right kind of hops) and introduce or reintroduce a premium brand à la Kirin and Sapporo in Japan and offer it at a premium but still fair price.

 

like Michelo…. Oh wait

 

I think that this already happens. There are a number of pilsner brands that seem to perform well at craft prices, as well as more "American" takes on pale lagers generously hopped with more modern varieties. That's all inline with the basic craft beer model of justifying a higher price by offering something more flavorful and otherwise unavailable.

I think that if you're going to compete in the AAL segment price is going to be a central factor. Founders seems to have found the best success in this segment with Solid Gold, and it's priced competitively with the top end of the AAL market. More locally, we have a brand that makes two beers (Light Lager and Citrus Wheat) that come in 12x12 format and are priced competitively with the top end of the AAL market while also prominently promoting their use of organic and california grown ingredients.

All of the examples of these types of lagers that I've seen produced by, and priced like, smaller craft brands have been short lived. I just don't see a strong "quality" lever for brewers to lean on in the AAL space

 

I have been trying to expand consideration beyond just the "AAL segment".

Let me summarize:

• As I discussed in post #103 that if a craft brewery makes a macro-AAL this will be a very tough sell. Why would some beer consumer pay more for a beer just like Hamm's or Bud or MHL or...? Well, with the exception if that beer is brewed in Mexico for some reason I don't resonate with.
• If the brewery produces a more flavorful adjunct lager (i.e., a Classic American Pilsner) then this is something different which will justify a higher price.

And to @keilerdunkel, there will indeed be a need to both battle and obtain repeat business here. That is true for every new product introduction in the beer industry.

Cheers!

 

I don't think the drinking public makes the distinction between all malt and adjunct anymore. So the types of beers you're describing are already being made and sold at the relevant brewer's price point.

And drinkers of Bud, Miller, Coors, etc haven't shown any interest in these more flavorful beers despite them being accessible for decades. So for a brewery looking at competing for those BMC drinkers it's a bit of a rock and a hard place, make an AAL and your base won't be interested so you've got to compete at macro price levels. Try to gin up the AAL with more hops or specialty malt and you've lost those BMC consumers.

 

Exactly what I was thinking even though I never like it!

 

Sorry, I wasn't trying to suggest that would actually happen only that that is the only way it could happen.

 

Woo-Hoo! I have finally 'connected' with somebody in this thread!!

John, I personally have no way of knowing what is occurring in the PNW as regards to craft breweries producing adjunct lagers. I will take your word here.

In the Pennsylvania area there are some flavorful adjunct lagers. One example is (was for the Philly market) Straub 1872 Pre-Prohibition Lager:



Unfortunately for me I have been unable to recently purchase this beer but apparently it is still being produced and available to beer consumers in Western PA.

The good news for me is that local to me is Von C Brewing OG Pils which they market as being akin to the original Schmidt's beer of the 1800's. I enjoy drinking this beer on tap when I visit the Von C Brewing taproom.

Maybe in the future we will see others despite the naysayers in this thread?

Cheers!

 

I don't understand the impulse or appreciation. I always thought that what was so impressive about a beer like bud light was that they made 10s of millions of barrels a year and they were all effectively identical. I don't see how making a single batch of that type of beer is any kind of accomplishment. It might require some technical proficiency, but that's the bare minimum I expect from a professional brewery.

 

John, I visited to pFreim website to learn more about the beer they market as a Canadian Lager:

“Canadian Lager

Inspired by our friends to the North, this Canadian Lager sparkles like glacial snow melt, pouring almost translucent, snappy with light aromas of ripening grain fields, orange flower blossom and fresh pastry. It’s off the crushability charts! Pairs with heaping bowls of poutine and oodles of sunshine.

ABV 5.0%

IBU 10

FLAVOR PROFILE: Clean, Soft Glacier Water, Quaffable

AVAILABILITY: Fall Seasonal

INGREDIENTS

Malt: CMC Superior Pilsen, Gambrinus Pilsner, Rice Syrup

Hops: Perle, Tettnang

Yeast: Lager

Tasting Notes

Sparkling in appearance, very light, almost translucent in color, topped with a firm white foam hat. Light aromas of soft glacial water, ripening grain fields, orange flower blossom, and a kiss of pastry crust. Easy drinking, super crisp, very clean, and just enough malt body to handle the bright carbonation. Finishes fresh, quaffable, and crushable…more please.”

At 10 IBUs this beer does indeed read like a macro-AAL beer.

I suppose they decided to brand this using “Canadian” since they used malt from CMC (Canadian Malting Co.)?



While on the website I noted they also produce a beer branded as American Lager:

“American Lager

Our American Lager is beautifully golden and easy drinking, effervescent with honey suckle and a spritz of lemon and pear. We add corn for a touch of sweetness to this buoyant brew, a crafty twist on a simply smashable American classic. Tasty with burgers, light pastas, grilled chicken and breezy sundecks.

ABV 5.0%

IBU 15

FLAVOR PROFILE: Crisp, Smooth, Beer Flavored Beer

AVAILABILITY: Spring Seasonal

INGREDIENTS

Malt: Gambrinus Pils, CMC Superior Pilsen

Hops: Perle, Tettnang

Yeast: Lager

Adjunct: Corn Grits

Tasting Notes

Ultra-bright topped with pillowy white foam. Soft aromas of wildflowers, a spritz of lemon, clean malt, cherry blossom, and pear. Fresh flavors of masa harina, biscuits, honey suckle, lemon pound cake, and beer flavored beer. Finishes soft, smooth and spritzy for easy drinking.”

Well, they use some CMC malt to brew the American Lager so…?

A quick comparison between the two beers:

IBUs: American is 15 IBUs vs. Canadian is 10 IBUs. I doubt that a typical beer drinker would notice this difference.

Adjuncts: American is brewed using corn (corn grits) while the Canadian is brewed using rice syrup. Depending on the amounts of adjunct used this may be a noticeable difference.

They use the same hops for both. My presumption is they use Perle for bittering and a little bit of Tettnang as a flavor addition.

My presumption is they use their ‘house’ lager yeast for both of these brands.

Well, I am a brewer (been homebrewing for over 25 years; I have batch #503 in the primary right now) and I can relate to you that brewing an AAL beer is indeed a very challenging thing. If a brewery (e.g., pFriem in this instance) can brew a high quality AAL that is indeed a testament to their brewing skills. Having consumed other pFreim beers during my visit to the brewery in 2018 I can provide my opinion that they are a very high quality brewery. I did not have either the Canadian or American Lager brands but I did drink a Kolsch during that visit (and other brands) and I thought that Kolsch was very good - excellent.

Cheers!

P.S. As to the topic why did pFreim decide to brew these two adjunct lagers. It might be as simple as they brewery staff enjoy drinking these sorts of beers so if was for their benefit, plus for customers who visit the taproom who enjoy AAL beers with their meals. It would be interesting to know how well these beers sell off-premise.