Are “Mexican Stouts” actually Chile Beers?

Talk Discussion in 'BeerAdvocate Talk' started by REVZEB, May 6, 2023.

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What style should “Mexican Stouts” that use peppers be listed as?

  1. Chile Beer

    39.0%
  2. Imperial Stout

    61.0%
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  1. REVZEB

    REVZEB Grand High Pooh-Bah (7,686) Mar 28, 2013 Illinois
    BA4LYFE Society Pooh-Bah Trader

    A question from a conversation during Cinco de Mayo yesterday about chile beer. For example should Prairie’s Bomb!, which uses ancho chile peppers, count as a chile beer or stout for the styles?
    “Mexican Stouts” would on one hand get more of a spotlight as chile beers, but on the other hand would probably dominate the category. Chile beer does have stouts in it though, but appear to be mostly mole stouts, and thus not usually imperial
     
  2. Todd

    Todd Founder (13,518) Aug 23, 1996 Finland
    STAFF Mod Team Society Pooh-Bah

    Depends. If the focus of the beer is the addition of chile peppers, then Chile Beer (typically pale lagers and ales). If it's just one of several ingredients, drop it in American Imperial Stout.
     
  3. REVZEB

    REVZEB Grand High Pooh-Bah (7,686) Mar 28, 2013 Illinois
    BA4LYFE Society Pooh-Bah Trader

    So this was my answer yesterday, but then it was pointed out that rye beers often include imperial ales, many of which are barrel aged, and it was asked why chiles in stouts would be different?
    In the interested of keeping conversation going I will wait to share my response. Have at it y’all!
     
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  4. Rug

    Rug Grand Pooh-Bah (3,454) Aug 20, 2018 Massachusetts
    Pooh-Bah Trader

    I think if it includes peppers, it's a Chile Beer. Much like any beer that contains pumpkin is a Pumpkin Beer
     
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  5. REVZEB

    REVZEB Grand High Pooh-Bah (7,686) Mar 28, 2013 Illinois
    BA4LYFE Society Pooh-Bah Trader

    Oh I didn’t even think of pumpkin beer. Game changer!
     
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  6. REVZEB

    REVZEB Grand High Pooh-Bah (7,686) Mar 28, 2013 Illinois
    BA4LYFE Society Pooh-Bah Trader

    Of course this gets blurry again with fruit and field beer vs fruited saison... also #SplitUpSaison
     
  7. Resistance88

    Resistance88 Grand Pooh-Bah (3,462) Apr 9, 2015 California
    Society Pooh-Bah Trader

    Omly stouts made in Mexico should be called Mexican Stouts.
    If something has chile in it its a Chile veer.

    Despite what most people think there are tons of regions in Mexico that do not eat chile at all.
     
  8. REVZEB

    REVZEB Grand High Pooh-Bah (7,686) Mar 28, 2013 Illinois
    BA4LYFE Society Pooh-Bah Trader

    Thus the " " on "Mexican Stout" in the title
     
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  9. Rug

    Rug Grand Pooh-Bah (3,454) Aug 20, 2018 Massachusetts
    Pooh-Bah Trader

    Very true. Also wasn't the splitting Saison thing just for splitting it into Saison and Grisette? Unless there's more to it
     
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  10. REVZEB

    REVZEB Grand High Pooh-Bah (7,686) Mar 28, 2013 Illinois
    BA4LYFE Society Pooh-Bah Trader

    Grisette was just the first victory of our movement! Mixed Culture vs Classic Saison would be huge in distinguishing this amazing style. We also want independence for Table Beer. Biere de Coupage is a pipedream but we got to keep the tent big in the #SplitUpSaison movement
     
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  11. Rug

    Rug Grand Pooh-Bah (3,454) Aug 20, 2018 Massachusetts
    Pooh-Bah Trader

    Ahh yeah, how could I forget Mixed Culture and Classic lol. I’m on board with all of this
     
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  12. NorsemanOne

    NorsemanOne Pooh-Bah (2,331) Sep 17, 2021 Utah
    Society Pooh-Bah Trader

    Fully on board with these thoughts
     
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  13. REVZEB

    REVZEB Grand High Pooh-Bah (7,686) Mar 28, 2013 Illinois
    BA4LYFE Society Pooh-Bah Trader

    Welcome to the #SplitUpSaison movement!
     
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  14. Roguer

    Roguer Grand High Pooh-Bah (7,811) Mar 25, 2013 Connecticut
    Mod Team Society Pooh-Bah Trader

    There's no easy answer for this. Is there a category for "Orange beer" for all beers involving orange? Fruit and field hardly suffices; it's not specific enough, and that style doesn't include lambics, milkshake IPAs, et al ...

    I'm with @Todd in that it depends on the nature of the beer. I think in most cases, a stout with chilies is going to be classified as a stout. It's a stout with chilies, no different than a stout with chocolate, vanilla, or coffee (which do not have their own sub-styles).

    When chili peppers are the clear focus of the beer, that is when I see the classification going in that direction. Further, chili beers aren't specific to brewing technique; they can be lagers, pale ales, dark ales, stouts, and anything else. There are plenty of chili pepper beers where that's the obvious focus, and the malt/hop/yeast combination is merely the palette used to show them off. That is a chili beer.

    So no, I don't think the mere inclusion of chili peppers in a beer necessitates it being classified as a chili beer. Not only would that reclassify a ton of classic beers in a way that doesn't really make sense (in particular many famous imperial stouts that would now be ... not stouts???), but again, it implies that if you add one ingredient, it changes the classification of the beer. Not only do we not have sub-styles for every possible additional ingredient, it would make classification literally impossible when you have more than one of those ingredients - and there's no reason that chili is a default classifying ingredient over any other additive, much less the malt base and brewing technique itself. Go ahead and classify Prairie Bomb! or Huna using that logic. They're either stouts, or they're absolutely unable to be classified at all.
     
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  15. BearsOnAcid

    BearsOnAcid Pooh-Bah (2,239) Mar 17, 2009 Massachusetts
    Pooh-Bah

    I would consider them chile beers, for sure
     
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  16. dbrauneis

    dbrauneis Grand High Pooh-Bah (8,071) Dec 8, 2007 North Carolina
    Mod Team BA4LYFE Society Pooh-Bah Trader

    Many of the “Mexican Stouts” that you would describe contain chiles as just one of many added ingredients to the beer and are not specifically the focus. In that case, I would classify these are Imperial Stouts.

    When chiles are the only added ingredient or are the focus of the beer, then I would classify as a Chile Beer.
     
  17. HouseofWortship

    HouseofWortship Pooh-Bah (2,735) May 3, 2016 Illinois
    Pooh-Bah Trader

    Let’s make it really difficult and have the differentiation between stout with chili and chili beer be a threshold of Scoville units.
     
  18. REVZEB

    REVZEB Grand High Pooh-Bah (7,686) Mar 28, 2013 Illinois
    BA4LYFE Society Pooh-Bah Trader

    That is a spicy take :rofl: Couldn't resist
     
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  19. Domingo

    Domingo Grand Pooh-Bah (4,252) Apr 23, 2005 Colorado
    Pooh-Bah

    I think we need to specifically define the part of Mexico that they originated in. As we all know, most Mexican Chocolate Stouts originated in La Paz and are especially spicy. Those are known as "West Coast" MCS's. On the other hand, there has been a huge push of super chocolatey MCS's in Tampico. They're also exponentially milder. Those are starting to be called "El Petroleo MCS's" and are all I ever seem to see on shelves now. There is also a single brewery in Belize who has been dry hopping them, therefore creating the entirely new style of Belizean Chocolate Stout.
     
  20. alucard6679

    alucard6679 Savant (1,009) Jul 29, 2012 Arizona

    I mean, I’d consider it a chile beer if the focus was specifically on that ingredient but with those beers the additives sort of act as an ensemble with all playing a role in the overarching experience. I wouldn’t call Prairie Bomb! a chile beer anymore than I’d call it a vanilla bean beer or a cacao nib beer.
     
    #20 alucard6679, May 8, 2023
    Last edited: May 8, 2023
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