Helles are always from Bavaria?

Typically is the correct answer. That said, I've always liked the character of Bavarian-brewed Helles above any others -- there's just something smoother and breadier inherent in Southern German light lagers.

https://www.beeradvocate.com/community/threads/helles-appreciation-thread-2023.673564/

A good thread to study.

 

It can be brewed anywhere. But you are right that it is very typical of Bavaria.

Until a few years ago it would have been very rare to see Helles outside Bavaria. Now it is sold and brewed all over Germany. However, it is still very strongly associated with Bavaria, so you will often see the blue and white diamonds of the Bavarian flag on labels.

 

Exactly. There is / was a "Helley-Hype" among larger German breweries - and many many breweries outside Bavaria started brewing a "Helles". But many weren't as successful as their Bavarian counterparts, so I know lots of breweries this year that stopped this trial - while Bavarian breweries still "export" lots of their Helles to northern Germany - Erdinger among them with a huge marketing campaign this summer.

 

So is the Helles style a relatively new thing?

 

Relative to what? Stout? Dunkel? Kölsch?

 

“The answer came in 1894 when Spaten released their golden lager. They called it helles, which translates to “bright,” “pale,” or “light.”

This new beer was a bit lighter than pilsner, and carried less of a hop presence in both aroma and bitterness. Instead, its calling card was stronger malt character.”

https://learn.kegerator.com/munich-helles/

I learned from the below video that for a beer to be a Münchner Helles it must be brewed using Munich water.



Prost!

 

Timeline is what I was after. Jack has it above. Erzengle's post made it sound relatively recent.

 

I'm guessing he means relatively recent outside Bavaria.

 

Krombacher did their own helles and it looks like they changed the marketing

https://www.eins-hell.de/

Brewing a helles north of Frankfurt is like making tacos in Minnesota - it can happen but it will always be questioned.

 

My review of the Krombacher over in the Helles Appreciation thread:
https://www.beeradvocate.com/commun...iation-thread-2023.673564/page-6#post-7815185

It's a pretty good Dortmunder.

 

@steveh I don't doubt that they can do it, almost all brewers are taught at the same 2 schools, it's just from a "this doesn't quite fit the image" viewpoint that I'm sure many loyal Krombacher drinkers wouldn't accept. Warsteiner used their Koenig Ludwig label and Bitburger created the Eifelbraeu helles.

 

I'm sure you're right, but the mineral quality in the Krombacher screamed Dortmunder to me. Catering to their clientele, or just unconcerned with the style to tweak the water?

 

No clue. But my guess is catering to their base. Chances are low that outside of supplying this to tied house gastronomy in Bayern that it will never actually cross the Weisswurstäquator.

 

@JackHorzempa

The Munich city tap water comes from reserviors on the NE of the city. So it is not Munich water, Germans and their rules. Low mineral water is best for light colored beers such as a Festbier or a Helles.

All of the large breweries have wells. How deep they are isn't something I've found online. What the mineral content of each is is also unknown, as to any treatment they do to the water. Ayinger has 2 wells, one is not so deep and has more mineral content than the one the talk about on the tour that is 603 meters deep. The water from the shallow well is used for blending withe the deep well water when brewing dark beers. The guide on the Ayinger tour said that Paulaner struggled at the new brewery due to the well having different water chemistry.

Giesinger also has to gaurentee a certain amount of beer for the Oktoberfest before they are approved. Hope they make it.

 

The well at Giesenger is discussed in the video I posted above. It is over 150 meters (500 feet approx.) deep and the host stated the water is very soft.

Prost!

 

Well I was thinking the others. Do you know how deep those are?

Soft water is low in Ca and MG. It can have Na,Cl, and HCO3 and still be soft. A mineral Analysis would be good to know.

 

Jeff, I just remembered that Martin Brungard wrote an article in the March/April 2014: "Brewing Water Series: Bavaria". He discussed: "these cities continue to draw from the same historic groundwater...".

On page 54 is Table 2 and for Munich it lists:

• Ca: 77 ppm
• Mg: 17 ppm
• Na: 4 ppm
• Sulfate: 18 ppm
• Chloride: 8 ppm
• Bicarbonate: 295 ppm

On page 56 is Chart 2 "Southern Bavaria Water Quality (Boiled)" for Munich:

• Ca: <20 ppm
• Mg: <20 ppm
• Na: 4 ppm
• Sulfate: <20 ppm
• Chloride: 8 ppm
• Bicarbonate: <110 ppm

Apparently the Munich brewers pre-boil their brewing water to reduce bicarbonate.

Cheers!