Czech Dark Lager (2024)

Discussion in 'The Bar' started by Reidrover, Mar 18, 2023.

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  1. jesskidden

    jesskidden Grand Pooh-Bah (3,145) Aug 10, 2005 New Jersey
    Society Pooh-Bah Trader

    The current page of the US importer for the so-called Czechvar brand, United States Beverage, says:
    And Rebel Dark used to be available in the US but can't say I've seen it recently.
     
  2. steveh

    steveh Grand Pooh-Bah (4,174) Oct 8, 2003 Illinois
    Society Pooh-Bah

    I've had a few imports over the years including Samson, Praha, and Primator -- along with the Czechvar mention previously.

    In my experience with US brewery takes, they hit the style pretty well and have the freshness advantage.
     
  3. FBarber

    FBarber Grand High Pooh-Bah (7,325) Mar 5, 2016 Illinois
    Mod Team BA4LYFE Society Pooh-Bah Trader

    Here in Chicago I can get probably 6-8 (depending on the store) Czech dark lagers from Czechia. Its really just a function of where you live and what distribution looks like.

    I've found all of the following on shelves here:
    Budvar Tmavý Ležák, Praga Dark Lager, Bernard Cerne, Primator Dark Lager, BrouCzech Dark, Samson 1795 Original Czech Lager Dark, Zlato Pražské Dark, Kozel Černý (Dark),
     
  4. JackHorzempa

    JackHorzempa Grand Pooh-Bah (3,375) Dec 15, 2005 Pennsylvania
    Society Pooh-Bah

    Are you able to purchase these beers in good/fresh condition?

    Na Zdravi

    P.S. My favorite Czech Dark Lagers from my visit to the Czech Republic:
    • Bernard Tmavý Ležák
    • U Fleků Tmavý Ležák
    • Cerna Svine 13° Tmavý Speciál
    • Matuška Tmavé special
     
  5. marquis

    marquis Pooh-Bah (2,313) Nov 20, 2005 England
    Pooh-Bah

    I have not read the entire thread but wonder if the point has been made that before 1840 all lager was dark.
     
  6. JackHorzempa

    JackHorzempa Grand Pooh-Bah (3,375) Dec 15, 2005 Pennsylvania
    Society Pooh-Bah

    Not according to BA @yester

    "You don't specifically say so, but I'd just like to add that there most certainly were pale lager beers around before Pilsner Urquell (contrary to their PR). Though of a different type, it wasn't uncommon for countryside lager breweries (ie. Franconia and the Oberpfalz) to make their own 'Luftmalz', eschewing the additional heating step and therefore these breweries were able to create very pale beers (with different taste characteristics obviously)."

    Cheers!

    P.S. And while not a lager, Witbier many centuries ago were also brewed using air dried malt to produce those pale colored beers.
     
  7. FBarber

    FBarber Grand High Pooh-Bah (7,325) Mar 5, 2016 Illinois
    Mod Team BA4LYFE Society Pooh-Bah Trader

    "-ish" - new stock comes in, but it certainly isn't as frequent as I'd like for all of them.
     
  8. JackHorzempa

    JackHorzempa Grand Pooh-Bah (3,375) Dec 15, 2005 Pennsylvania
    Society Pooh-Bah

    I suspected as such. The benefit of the US craft brewed Czech Dark Lagers I purchase is that while they may be available in a rotating fashion I always find those beers in fresh condition.

    Na Zdravi
     
  9. woemad

    woemad Grand Pooh-Bah (5,601) Jun 8, 2003 Washington
    Pooh-Bah Trader

    Having another DRK SZN at Lumberbeard, along with some cheeseburger potatoes.
    [​IMG]
    Interestingly, the signage on the beer board is now calling it a "dark pilsner."
     
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  10. steveh

    steveh Grand Pooh-Bah (4,174) Oct 8, 2003 Illinois
    Society Pooh-Bah

    :rolling_eyes: -- I wonder if that was done because too many customers couldn't wrap their heads around the style?
     
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  11. JackHorzempa

    JackHorzempa Grand Pooh-Bah (3,375) Dec 15, 2005 Pennsylvania
    Society Pooh-Bah

    I suspect an instance of a learning curve.

    I recently had a road trip to/from Texas visiting family & friends in Texas and I was able to drink Czech Dark Lagers in breweries in Oklahoma and Mississippi. It seems to me that Czech Dark Lagers are in the nascent stage for American craft breweries. Even in the Czech Republic this style is very much a minority beer style as measured by beer volume consumed.

    Cheers!
     
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  12. jesskidden

    jesskidden Grand Pooh-Bah (3,145) Aug 10, 2005 New Jersey
    Society Pooh-Bah Trader

    Ain't the first time, either :wink:
    [​IMG]
    circa 1979 - when quite a few large US brewers started importing & distributing imports. They were surprised when imports were accounting for over 2% of the US beer market. :astonished:

    Of course, US breweries in general were never too concerned with the definition of "pilsner".
     
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  13. steveh

    steveh Grand Pooh-Bah (4,174) Oct 8, 2003 Illinois
    Society Pooh-Bah

    Olympia? :thinking_face:
    That probably explains a lot of the marketing miscues. :grin:
     
  14. JackHorzempa

    JackHorzempa Grand Pooh-Bah (3,375) Dec 15, 2005 Pennsylvania
    Society Pooh-Bah

    I discussed Bohemian Dusk yesterday in the NBW thread:

    Czech it out: Jack’s Abby Bohemian Dusk Czech Dark Lager

    I am a fan of many dark lager beer styles but my favorite is the Czech Dark Lager style. For those who are unfamiliar with the Czech Dark Lager style they come in varying levels of strength (i.e., ABV) which are distinguished by numbers (i.e., degrees Plato of the original gravity) or words:

    “Basically, the Czechs describe their beers by color and strength. First, let’s learn our colors:
    • Pale = Světlé
    • Semi-dark (Amber) = Polotmavý
    • Dark = Tmavý (or Tmavé)
    • Black = Černý
    When it comes to beer strength, what we would typically associate with alcohol (ABV) strength, the Czechs instead describe the original gravity of the wort used to brew the beer. They have words for this but more commonly I have seen numbers in degrees Plato to describe the beers strength. In order of lower to higher strength:
    • 10° or Výčepní
    • 12° or Ležák
    • 14° or Speciál (or Speziál)”
    If you want to try out your Czech lessons, a mid-strength Czech Dark Lager would be Tmavý Ležák.

    https://www.morebeer.com/articles/Czech_Beers

    There are some craft breweries near me which brew Czech Dark Lagers but it is an infrequent brand and sometimes only available on tap. I was happy to spot a stack of Jack’s Abbey Bohemian Dust at my local Wegman’s supermarket and I immediately put a four-pack into my shopping cart. Below is how this beer is detailed on the Jack’s Abby website:

    “Dark Czech Style Lager

    October Release

    Light and dark are often used as contrasts, but something special can be found where light and dark meet. That’s what inspired this beer. Traditional Bohemian floor malts, Saaz hops, and open-fermentation create a light and easy-drinking beer that is dark in appearance with a hint of sweet roast.

    ABV 4.5%”

    Also, on the can’s label it states:

    · Double Decoction Mashed

    · Naturally Carbonated

    It has been a while since I have conducted a side-by-side discussion in NBW, and since I have some homebrewed Tmavý Ležák (Czech Dark Lager) I figured I would discuss Bohemian Dusk as a side-by-side tasting.

    You will see in the photo below that there is a label for the Tmavý Ležák bottle, the story behind this label:

    My wife and I stayed in the Anděl neighborhood during our 2019 visit to Prague; Anděl is Czech for Angel.

    My wife went online somewhere and created a label for this beer ‘branding’ this beer as Dark Angel.

    Served in my Polish Pilsner glasses:

    Appearance:

    Dark Angle: A dark chestnut brown color with a reddish hue. A tan head with excellent head retention as the beer is consumed.

    Bohemian Dusk: A deep amber color with a one finger light tan head.

    Aroma:

    Dark Angel: A subtle but quite noticeable aroma of toasted dark bread and a hint of cocoa.

    Bohemian Dusk: Similar to the above but of a lower intensity.

    Taste:

    Dark Angel: The flavor follows the nose with a pleasing combination of subtle chocolate and toasted dark bread. There is also a subtle but noticeable flavor of Coca-Cola in the background. A low/moderate bitterness.

    Bohemian Dusk: Also has some subtle chocolate and toasted dark bread flavors. A low/moderate bitterness.

    Mouthfeel:

    Dark Angel: There is a luscious soft/creamy mouthfeel with an off-dry finish.

    Bohemian Dusk: In comparison the body is lighter with a thin(er) mouthfeel.

    Overall:

    Dark Angel: This beer is very good – excellent.

    Bohemian Dusk: This beer is very good.

    The two beers have a somewhat similar flavor profile but the Dark Angel had more complexity. The most notable difference between the two beers was the difference in mouthfeel.

    As I was about halfway through the tasting my wife walked in the room and asked: whatcha doing? I offered to her to try the two beers which she did in blind fashion (i.e., she did not know the brands since at this point I had disposed of the can/bottle). After a few sips of each she raised the glass in her left hand and stated “This one is better”. She preferred Dark Angel.

    Cheers!

    [​IMG]
     
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  15. jmdrpi

    jmdrpi Grand High Pooh-Bah (8,989) Dec 11, 2008 Pennsylvania
    BA4LYFE Society Pooh-Bah

    Have you shared the recipe you use before in the Homebrew forum?

    I've never brewed a lager before, but this style is one that I would inspire me to try. I usually start with looking at my Brewing Classic Styles (Zainasheff / Palmer) book, but this is one style they didn't include.
     
  16. JackHorzempa

    JackHorzempa Grand Pooh-Bah (3,375) Dec 15, 2005 Pennsylvania
    Society Pooh-Bah

    Nope, nobody ever asked.

    Maybe it is time to write an article about Czech Dark Lagers?

    Cheers!

    P.S. My most recent article about Witbier:

    https://www.morebeer.com/articles/Brewing_Witbier
     
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  17. jmdrpi

    jmdrpi Grand High Pooh-Bah (8,989) Dec 11, 2008 Pennsylvania
    BA4LYFE Society Pooh-Bah

    I'd be interested in you (or other's) recipe because my LHBS (Keystone) doesn't have a recipe kit, and neither does Northern Brewer or More Beer.

    Quick google search I found this:
     
  18. JackHorzempa

    JackHorzempa Grand Pooh-Bah (3,375) Dec 15, 2005 Pennsylvania
    Society Pooh-Bah

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  19. AlcahueteJ

    AlcahueteJ Grand Pooh-Bah (3,242) Dec 4, 2004 Massachusetts
    Society Pooh-Bah

    I just went to Prague this past summer and I can confidently say US breweries are doing a damn fine job of replicating this style. Maybe even exceeding the style in some instances.

    That being said, nothing is better (to my palate) than U Fleků's version.
     
  20. JackHorzempa

    JackHorzempa Grand Pooh-Bah (3,375) Dec 15, 2005 Pennsylvania
    Society Pooh-Bah

    I have had good experiences with the Czech Dark Lagers brewed locally (Philly area) but I have also had lesser experiences with non-locally brewed Czech Dark Lagers (e.g., as I discussed in post #151: “I was able to drink Czech Dark Lagers in breweries in Oklahoma and Mississippi”). It seems that for some craft breweries they prefer to use larger amounts of roasted malt(s) vs. using a subtle touch. Perhaps an issue that for craft breweries ‘moar’ is better? Or perhaps their specific customer base demands ‘moar’?

    From my perspective a Czeck Dark Lager should not be on the spectrum of a Stout/Porter as regards level of roast character. As discussed in Evan’s article:

    “As such, the dark-roasted malt is pretty much only there to add color. A good tmavé doesn’t really have any roasty notes—and it’s definitely not astringent.”

    And:

    “My goal with ours is to get the color so that at the edge of the glass it’s more like a dark red, starting to turn to dark brown, while in the middle of the Tübinger glass, it’s closer to straight black,” Larkin says, referring to a dimpled mug commonly used for Czech lager. “Ours is devoid of roast character—we’re trying to go for more of a chocolate as opposed to a coffee flavor.”

    https://beerandbrewing.com/tmave-pivo-the-czech-republics-uncommon-dark-lager/

    For my palate a hint of roast character is OK in a Czech Dark Lager and it could be argued that it adds a little bit of complexity to the beer’s flavor profile. For the two beer’s I recently had in Oklahoma and Mississippi the roast character was more than a hint and consequently not a favorite for my personal palate.

    Na Zdravi
     
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