Bock Thread (2024)

The skewed perceptions around here, I tell ya.

(especially since it's high for a Doppelbock. )

 

Spaten Optimator.

Luckily this came from an enclosed variety case box, so the green glass not an issue for light exposure. From box to fridge.

 

Optimator tastes a bit hoppy to me, but that shouldn't be bc it's not called beer. It's got wonderful nose of roasted candy, but hop funk too...or maybe it's sourdough funk. Lacks the fudge and coffee notes of celebrator. Glad I got them both!

 

Not a fan of the “springtime lager” branding, but it does a passable job of scratching an itch.

 

A few days ago I bought a six-pack (having had one yet). Next weekend I will discuss it in the NBW thread in a side-by-side with Troegenator.

Cheers to Troegs!

 

Huh?

 

Huh?

 

I thought in Germany a brew had to have hops to be labeled "beer." It's labeled malt liquor or something, so I assumed hops weren't used. But celebrator is labeled beer.

 

I realize I'm using my typical fuzzy logic. Of course, it can be labeled " malt liquor" and still have hops, but it can't be labeled beer w/o hops. I just presumed that spaten was pretty pure and doesn't use corn or other unusual grains.

 

If you're seeing "malt liquor" on a label, it's probably a (old) regional US regulation based on alcohol content. To be sold in that state at certain ABVs, it needed to be labeled Malt Liquor.

AFA German beer goes, just look to the Reinheitsgebot that decrees "beer" be brewed with water, barley malt, HOPS, and yeast.

Not too many beers made anywhere without hops in the recipe these days -- including Doppelbocks like Optimator.

 

Okay. It's definitely "malt liquor" on the label. Maybe the Germans don't realize how off-putting that title is, given it's association with Side pocket.

 

As said, it's an old legislative thing in the US -- the Germans didn't choose put it there, it is/was required by law in many places in the US based on a beer's alcohol content to be labeled "Malt Liquor."

 

But you're the one who appeared to suggest that the beer had no hops, Spaten Optimator is brewed with hops and hop extract:

It's an all-malt beer, but not sure how that applies to the topic of "no hops"...

Well, Spaten is owned by Anheuser-Busch InBev:

And it is imported by AB-InBev's subsidiary Import Brands Alliance

which (as @steveh noted above) has to follow US labeling regulations to sell the beer in the US.

Huh (again)?

 

This one goes out to @Holistervildercamp -- my all time favorite of the style, beer > bottom fermented > Bock > Doppelbock. Water, malt, hops and yeast. Legislative definitions of beer be damned.

 

It is excellent. Enjoyed it even more than the celebrator.
And I have been recalling some Belgian imports that also used the malt liquor/ beverage name rather than beer, which were quality ales. So it's making sense now.
I just can't read malt liquor without thinking of Side pocket, O.E. 800, Mickey's, etc. which kind of turn my stomach.

 

Let it go man, they're not labeling a style -- just a very old-fashioned, knee-jerk reaction to strong beer.

 

Will do.

 

After the end of the licensing deal with the Miller Brewing Co., and Munich-brewed Lowenbrau returned (briefly) to the US market, it was labeled "Malt Liquor". As @steveh mentioned, it was to be able to sell it in states that had tax laws that prohibited sale of a beverage labeled "Beer" over 5% abv/4% abw. Texas' law - no longer in effect - was the most well-known (because Texas is usually the #1 or #2 beer market in the US).

Some brewers and imported printed different labels for different US markets but "Malt Liquor" did show up on some other German beer labels, like this much older (1970s-1980s?) Spaten Optimator (below, bottom left-hand corner of label).

 

@jesskidden -- I didn't realize the ABV limit for beer/malt liquor was so low.

 

Well, that was Texas' regulation. Although California once had a similar law.


At the Federal Level, the (vague) legal definition has no specifics for alcohol content for "Malt Liquor" (other than having ½% or more ):

Before Prohibition in the US, "malt liquor" was simply the catch-all generic legal term for all beers:

At the time wine was legally referred to as a vinous liquor and distilled beverages were spirituous liquors.

Today, the legal generic term used by Feds is "Malt Beverage" (another one that drives some folks crazy when applied to beer).