Crafting consistent beer with changing hops!

Discussion in 'Beer Talk' started by JackHorzempa, May 17, 2024.

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  1. JackHorzempa

    JackHorzempa Grand Pooh-Bah (3,375) Dec 15, 2005 Pennsylvania
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    Hops are crops and they will vary based upon the season/year, where they are grown (the terroir effect), when they are harvested (e.g., early harvest vs. late harvest) and a number of other variables.

    How does a brewer produce consistent product given this variability?

    Nate Lanier of Tree House discusses this vexing topic.

    Cheers!

     
  2. Amendm

    Amendm Pooh-Bah (2,589) Jun 7, 2018 Rhode Island
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    A question for all of the folks who often drink Green and other Treehouse offerings.

    Do you agree that Green has been consistent in hop flavor since 2016?
     
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  3. JackHorzempa

    JackHorzempa Grand Pooh-Bah (3,375) Dec 15, 2005 Pennsylvania
    Society Pooh-Bah

    One aspect to bear in mind as regards the question posed above is the age of the beer (i.e., how long since the canning date). A beer such as Green from the exact same batch will taste different at one week post canning vs. 5 weeks post canning. This is not a reflection of batch inconsistency but simply an artifact that hoppy beers (e.g., IPAs) will evolve over time (e.g., hop fade).

    Cheers!

    P.S. And how those beers were stored over time will be impactful. Continuous cold storage is best.
     
    #3 JackHorzempa, May 18, 2024
    Last edited: May 18, 2024
  4. defunksta

    defunksta Grand Pooh-Bah (4,164) Jan 18, 2019 Wisconsin
    Society Pooh-Bah Trader

    I have found wide variation with a specific beer from year to year sometimes. In NEIPAs I'm not sure what else, but I suspect the hop change/variation could be a significant factor.
     
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  5. tasterschoice62

    tasterschoice62 Grand Pooh-Bah (3,949) May 14, 2014 Rhode Island
    BA4LYFE Society Pooh-Bah Trader

    No
     
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  6. tasterschoice62

    tasterschoice62 Grand Pooh-Bah (3,949) May 14, 2014 Rhode Island
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    For me personally I've always thought at least a couple of weeks of aging really helps the hops to be more expressive. ( I say this considering they are IPAs, NEIPAs etc) I've always felt there was more burn and singularity of flavor with most that are very young. Of course there are exceptions to everything. I've had Heady at 90 days and thoroughly enjoyed the expressive hoppiness.
     
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  7. Amendm

    Amendm Pooh-Bah (2,589) Jun 7, 2018 Rhode Island
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    Thanks, do you drink Green, Greeen, Greeeen etc., or other TH beers often?
     
    #7 Amendm, May 20, 2024
    Last edited: May 20, 2024
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  8. tasterschoice62

    tasterschoice62 Grand Pooh-Bah (3,949) May 14, 2014 Rhode Island
    BA4LYFE Society Pooh-Bah Trader

    Once a month usually but it's been awhile. I think it ties into keeping a bit at home and trying it at different stages. For me I've always felt TH was better after at least a few weeks.
    Edit but really your question was about from 2016 until now. My bad I can't say for sure from that long ago. But don't you think they've made.adjustments?
     
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  9. JackHorzempa

    JackHorzempa Grand Pooh-Bah (3,375) Dec 15, 2005 Pennsylvania
    Society Pooh-Bah

    Yes, that is a potential issue with some Juicy/Hazy IPAs. I personally have never experienced that issue with 'regular' IPAs.
    There is indeed some truth to that (see above).

    One aspect that is true for all sorts of IPAs in my opinion is that hoppy beers (e.g., IPAs) will experience hop fade with age.

    Cheers!
     
  10. Amendm

    Amendm Pooh-Bah (2,589) Jun 7, 2018 Rhode Island
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    I did the TH pilgrimage in 2018, haven't been back, Great offerings but similar quality IPAs are much closer. Stouts are another story, and I plan to try some Lagers this summer.

    I'm looking to see if the article was full-of-shit or not. Prost.
     
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  11. tasterschoice62

    tasterschoice62 Grand Pooh-Bah (3,949) May 14, 2014 Rhode Island
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    The exact reason I haven't made a point of returning monthly like I used to. There are so many options locally or closer anyway. I just visited Tilted Barn the other day - excellent beers. Another great thing is we are def having local breweries pump up the lager production. I'm loving the lagers as well lately. I would highly recommend OEC Brewing if you haven't tried any of their beers yet. Then there's Notch, Jack's Abby, Schilling and yes TB among many others. Cheers!
     
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  12. tasterschoice62

    tasterschoice62 Grand Pooh-Bah (3,949) May 14, 2014 Rhode Island
    BA4LYFE Society Pooh-Bah Trader

    Agree with all that. I was pointing to NEIPAs for the most part.
    Sierra Nevada seems to be one that has really perfected the longevity of hoppiness. Not sure what the "magic" is. Maybe those caps? Or maybe it's my imagination
     
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  13. Amendm

    Amendm Pooh-Bah (2,589) Jun 7, 2018 Rhode Island
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    I'm a huge fan of the breweries you mentioned except OEC and I plan on hitting that one up this summer. Tilted Barn has been taken over by IPA and seltzer, but I still stop in. Cheers.
     
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  14. JackHorzempa

    JackHorzempa Grand Pooh-Bah (3,375) Dec 15, 2005 Pennsylvania
    Society Pooh-Bah

    The "magic" for Sierra Nevada is they achieve low TPO (Total Packaged Oxygen) values for their packaged beers (i.e., can, bottles). They do use oxygen barrier liners for their bottle caps but at my local retailers it seems more and more of their products are canned nowadays; cans have little to no oxygen ingress.

    The other aspect that Sierra Nevada tries is to request their wholesale beer distributors store their beers cold. I have learned from other breweries that are served by the same wholesale distributor(s) that cold storage is not always maintained for Sierra Nevada beers.

    As with all breweries, fresh is best but if you obtain Sierra Nevada beers that are several months old and they were indeed stored cold they should be in good shape.

    Cheers!
     
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  15. tasterschoice62

    tasterschoice62 Grand Pooh-Bah (3,949) May 14, 2014 Rhode Island
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    That's been my experience as well. I rarely see it stored cold around here.
     
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  16. tasterschoice62

    tasterschoice62 Grand Pooh-Bah (3,949) May 14, 2014 Rhode Island
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    Actually their Barn Lager, Lawn Boy and Dark Lawn Boy are all good beers. Give them a shot.
     
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  17. JackHorzempa

    JackHorzempa Grand Pooh-Bah (3,375) Dec 15, 2005 Pennsylvania
    Society Pooh-Bah

    My local beer retailers (e.g., Retail Beer Distributors, supermarkets) have some refrigeration but the majority of the beers are non-refrigerated. I could purchase a six-pack of Sierra Nevada beer from the refrigerator but I really don't know how long it was there. An employee could have taken it from the floor/shelf the day before and place it in the refrigerator.

    I suspect the bigger issue is how the beer was stored for the month(s) at the Wholesale Distributor prior to being shipped to the retailer. Were those beers actually stored at refrigerator temperature? As I related in my prior post, often times the answer to that question is no.

    The only real 'tool' we have is the date(s) on the beer and fresh is best. The only Sierra Nevada hoppy beer I regularly purchase is Celebration IPA since it is a seasonal and when I see those beers first appear in the fall I know they are fresh. I buy that beer and when I bring it home it immediately goes into my refrigerator. No concerns about this beer being several months old and not stored cold.

    Cheers!
     
  18. tasterschoice62

    tasterschoice62 Grand Pooh-Bah (3,949) May 14, 2014 Rhode Island
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    That's a "trick" that goes on alot from my experience. I mean it's common to rotate product and should be a regular routine but most of these people aren't checking dates. Especially SN in bottles 6pks. You really have to look. Seems the old is always in the cooler and the new is on the floor. You shouldn't be penalized for wanting cold beer.
    I think we just need to keep reminding our stores there is a limit as far as age goes.
    I have a great relationship with my manager friend at the store. I always remind him I will not buy Hoponious Union from Jack's Abby over 40 days old. (As an example)That particular beer fades fast IMO. So he gets some in last week and it's dated from December. No Bueno. He's going to have to put the pressure on the distributor to take it back. This problem seems like it's always going to be an issue due to the volume of selections available now.
     
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  19. JackHorzempa

    JackHorzempa Grand Pooh-Bah (3,375) Dec 15, 2005 Pennsylvania
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    Best of luck to him here since distributors hate having to take back beer.

    Did you read the post from this morning about a Liquor Store manager:

    "The liquor store I manage is one of three stores where the volume is high enough that distributors "dump" beer here. Basically, they pick up short-dated beer from other accounts and move it to either my store, the big grocery store, or the local Walmart because we have the best odds of selling it before the date on the box."

    So, the 'solution' is to just move around 'old' beer from retailer A to retailer B?

    Cheers!
     
  20. tasterschoice62

    tasterschoice62 Grand Pooh-Bah (3,949) May 14, 2014 Rhode Island
    BA4LYFE Society Pooh-Bah Trader

    This sounds exactly like the conversation I had with him. They prob take it back and move it to another store! I've seen the same outdated beer with the same dates in other stores. There is only one store that has it fresh.
     
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