Why do breweries close?

Discussion in 'Beer Talk' started by JackHorzempa, Jun 8, 2024.

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  1. crazyspicychef

    crazyspicychef Pooh-Bah (2,341) Sep 27, 2012 Pennsylvania
    Pooh-Bah

    I can't see how some breweries (Appalachian Brewing Company) stay IN business.
    Their beer sux, except for their seasonal Mai Bock, which still isn't great, the Director of operations is a total tool, the food is one step up from Alpo dog food and the service is absolutely horrible.
    Yet, they have something like 3 locations. Their beer is never on tap at any local restaurants, and they have almost no footprint at the beer distributor.
    Tröegs blows them out of the water, and I am not the biggest Tröegs fan either. Too many damn IPA's and such. Not enough variety of styles for me, and the ones they do make are usually overly hopped.
    There used to be 4 owners, with the DOO owning a small share. I know one owner died, I believe two bailed out, I'm not sure if Shawn is still an owner or not?
    How da F do they stay afloat?
    The main Harrisburg location is NEVER busy anymore, at least the times I've stopped in.
    I don't get it?
     
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  2. JackHorzempa

    JackHorzempa Grand Pooh-Bah (3,375) Dec 15, 2005 Pennsylvania
    Society Pooh-Bah

    It would seem to be a location dependent sort of thing. The Appalachian brewpub in Collegeville closed a few years ago (2019?) and Troubles End Brewing opened in that location and that business seems to be thriving. Troubles End produces very good beer and the food is comparable (and often times even better).

    It would seem that there are some locations where the local customers are 'happy' to drink mediocre beer.

    Cheers!

    P.S. FWIW I attended a beer festival a number of years ago in south/central PA and a significant number of those beers were dumped. I was quite pleased that Troegs was there, I drank a number of those beers.
     
  3. bubseymour

    bubseymour Grand Pooh-Bah (4,800) Oct 30, 2010 Maryland
    Pooh-Bah Trader

    Appalaician had 2 locations in Gettysburg and 1 closed down a couple years ago (the one by the outlets/movie theater. The downtown location is still there. They pull in good business. FWIW, I’ve been 3-4 times over last decade and always had good food and found the beers respectable. It is a 1990’s microbrew pub model like Gordon Biersh, BJs etc that seems to be falling away over the last 5 years or so.
     
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  4. ATL6245

    ATL6245 Grand Pooh-Bah (3,984) Aug 16, 2018 Georgia
    Society Pooh-Bah

    I saw his youtube videos a while back. Loved his enthusiasm and dedication to making quality beers. Sad to hear he closed. Haven't watched the video yet but will so.
     
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  5. JackHorzempa

    JackHorzempa Grand Pooh-Bah (3,375) Dec 15, 2005 Pennsylvania
    Society Pooh-Bah

    He shot his last video at the Tanglefoot location (see below).

    It sounds like he is hoping to keep 'things' going in a contract brewing mode. I wish him well but I wonder how well this business model will work for him.

    I commented/asked in the comment section of the YouTube videos whether he ever considered having a more diversified portfolio of beers, even if only serving guest brewed beers, and he was adamant at only producing and serving Czech style beers. Part of me admires him for his 'focus' here but I just don't think he can realistically stay in business with this mindset with the 'proof' being he had to shut down his brewery due to lack of revenue.

    Na Zdravi

     
  6. ATL6245

    ATL6245 Grand Pooh-Bah (3,984) Aug 16, 2018 Georgia
    Society Pooh-Bah

    Unfortunately, it seems he set himself up to fail:
    1. Started a business with very limited capital.
    2. Believed in the "build it and they will come" marketing concept. You have to market your business, especially in such a competitive, low margin space.
    3. As an earlier poster pointed out - Location, Location, Location. Small town and lived too far a commute to the business.

    I give him a lot of credit for giving it a go. He severely handicapped himself from the get-go in three majorly important areas: location, investment and marketing.
     
  7. ATL6245

    ATL6245 Grand Pooh-Bah (3,984) Aug 16, 2018 Georgia
    Society Pooh-Bah

    He still has to solve those three major issues I mentioned previously in order to have a chance to be successful.
     
  8. JackHorzempa

    JackHorzempa Grand Pooh-Bah (3,375) Dec 15, 2005 Pennsylvania
    Society Pooh-Bah

    I do not disagree with anything you posted above.

    Do you think he can have a sustainable Tanglefoot business just producing Czech style beers in a distributed beer market? Selling beer as a distribution business is a very low margin business. Breweries who sell directly (e.g., the Tanglefoot taproom) make waaay more money on a per pint basis.

    Cheers!
     
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  9. ATL6245

    ATL6245 Grand Pooh-Bah (3,984) Aug 16, 2018 Georgia
    Society Pooh-Bah

    Doubt it. You need to turn inventory fast in a low margin business. Lager does not seem like a great place to start.
     
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  10. unlikelyspiderperson

    unlikelyspiderperson Grand Pooh-Bah (3,966) Mar 12, 2013 California
    Pooh-Bah Trader

    Why nor? It's by far (like several orders of magnitude) the higher volume category of that particular beer dichotomy
     
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  11. ATL6245

    ATL6245 Grand Pooh-Bah (3,984) Aug 16, 2018 Georgia
    Society Pooh-Bah

    Craft lagers don't move as fast. It takes longer to produce them too. He should probably start with beers that are quicker to make & sell quicker. Then he could branch out to lagers. I'm certainly no expert, just speculating here.
     
  12. kot1967

    kot1967 Devotee (341) Sep 12, 2012 Russian Federation

    As a famous poet used to say, when I have no inspiration, I write prose. If beer is bad, brew "notbeer". Today, by the way, there was a publication by a "well-known" expert from the USA about how beermakers are massively switching to winemaking ("Wine Maker" magazine, anyone interested should read it). So there are plenty of options...
     
  13. PapaGoose03

    PapaGoose03 Grand High Pooh-Bah (6,057) May 30, 2005 Michigan
    BA4LYFE Society Pooh-Bah

    That's news to me. This may be happening at a few breweries (or maybe they are just adding wines to the beverage menu), but the number of switch-overs to making wine is certainly not "massive." Who is the "well-known expert"?
     
  14. jesskidden

    jesskidden Grand Pooh-Bah (3,145) Aug 10, 2005 New Jersey
    Society Pooh-Bah Trader

    He's likely referring to this article (no pub. date, tho' and he says "Today") which appears to be a home winemaker publication, rather than one aimed at the commercial industry:
    https://winemakermag.com/article/craft-beer-influenced-winemaking
    Which says:
    I'm not sure "Some...brewers" equals "Massively". :rolling_eyes:
     
  15. PapaGoose03

    PapaGoose03 Grand High Pooh-Bah (6,057) May 30, 2005 Michigan
    BA4LYFE Society Pooh-Bah

    That is an interesting article. But, yeah, 'some' is a big difference from 'massive' as far as the numbers go.
     
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  16. hopfenunmaltz

    hopfenunmaltz Pooh-Bah (2,635) Jun 8, 2005 Michigan
    Pooh-Bah

    A while ago I read an article about all the winemakers that are just hanging on financially in a saturated market.

    What does a guy from the Russian Federation know?
     
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  17. unlikelyspiderperson

    unlikelyspiderperson Grand Pooh-Bah (3,966) Mar 12, 2013 California
    Pooh-Bah Trader

    It seems to me that you can be plenty successful moving higher quality lagers in large volumes as long as you're set up to do that from the start. You might require a bit more startup capital up front (which, as you mentioned, this fella was lacking) but otherwise we've got lots of examples of craft lagers that move at a scale that many ipa brewers can only dream of.

    It seems to me that the big change from the boom days to these more mature market times for a start up brewer is that you need to go in to the operation clear on what your goal is, scale wise, and also assured that you have the proper capital to fire up at that scale. It seems less possible to start on shoestring and grow into a regional distributing brand than it might have been 15, 20, or 30 years ago
     
  18. moodenba

    moodenba Pooh-Bah (2,502) Feb 2, 2015 New York
    Society Pooh-Bah

    Lagers were the basis of several successful craft brewers. Brooklyn lager, sam Adams, Blue point Toasted. Yuengling lager. All are ambers, reminiscent of pre prohibition beers. It's hard to make a dent in the market now wherever you start.
     
  19. moodenba

    moodenba Pooh-Bah (2,502) Feb 2, 2015 New York
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    I inadvertently id'ed Yuengling as craft. Still a successful amber lager. But Sam and Brooklyn were both initially brewed at main line brewers. And bottled Blue Point too.
     
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  20. JackHorzempa

    JackHorzempa Grand Pooh-Bah (3,375) Dec 15, 2005 Pennsylvania
    Society Pooh-Bah

    According to the Brewers Association Yuengling is a craft brewery.

    Cheers!
     
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