Taking personal responsibility for old beer purchases

Discussion in 'Beer Talk' started by John_M, Oct 4, 2024.

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  1. John_M

    John_M Grand High Pooh-Bah (6,849) Oct 25, 2003 Washington
    Mod Team Society Pooh-Bah Trader

    At least where I live, finding old, outdated, out of code beer on the shelf continues to be a problem. It's not the problem it was 15 or 20 years ago, as better beer stores are aware that certain styles do not age well and are best enjoyed fresh. So they try to make sure stock isn't too far past its canning date, or past its "best by" or "drink by" date. Still, at places like Total Wine, BevMo, and smaller grocery outlets, I'm aware I need to be extra diligent in selecting beer off the shelf. Generally, I simply won't buy any cans or bottles that don't have some age indicator on the can/bottle or packaging (unless it's a style I feel isn't particularly age sensitive). Furthermore, for the most part I generally only drink draft beer (at least 75% of my beer consumption is draft beer).

    In the event I do end up with some old, out of code beer, increasingly I feel like that's on me. I either bought something that didn't have a date code on it or it did have one and I was in too big a hurry to look for it (and so didn't notice the dipa I was buying had a best by date 8 months in the past).

    The other day, someone joined BA solely to vent about a bad experience he had. He bought some Victory beer that was 4 years old and was undrinkable. The consumer felt the fault lay with the brewery, and he demanded that they either reimburse him for the cost of the beer or provide him with fresh product. For their part, Victory (apparently) felt this problem was the fault of the retailer. They indicated that like any perishable grocery item, retailers were expected to rotate stock and make sure they weren't selling any old beer. They acknowledged that unfortunately some retailers were unscrupulous, and would sell old beer anyway so as not to incur an economic loss. Victory was apologetic, advised the consumer they would check the store (and remove any other out of code Victory beer), and also check with the distributor to make sure they weren't sitting on any old, out of code Victory product. They did not agree to reimburse the consumer (leading him to join BA for the sole purpose of badmouthing Victory about his experience- hence the reason his post was subsequently removed).

    My personal take is that this is all old news. I know there are retailers out there that try to pass off old stock, and I also know that many breweries aren't as dillegent as they might be when it comes to checking their distributors and retailers who might be trying to "pan off" old stock to unsuspecting consumers. Furthermore, this particular consumer was apparently aware that Victory date codes their beer, but for whatever reason didn't bother to check it before making his purchase. In a similar situation, I would have mentally kicked myself for not checking the date code, vowed to be more dillegent in the future, and just moved on. I'm pretty sure I would not have used this experience as justification to boycott Victory for the rest of my life and to seek out social media outlets in order to badmouth Victory and give their beers a bad review (which is what this new member stated he was planning to do in his post).

    Bottom line. These days if I happen to purchase old product I tend to blame myself for the bad experience, rather than the retail outlet or brewery. I know what the landscape is like out there, and feel as if I'm armed with sufficient information to avoid this from happening. At least that's my current take.
     
    #1 John_M, Oct 4, 2024
    Last edited: Oct 5, 2024
  2. DarkDragon999

    DarkDragon999 Maven (1,331) Feb 13, 2013 Rhode Island

    Just the other day I saw someone grab a 4 pack of Lawson's Sip of Sunshine from the cooler without even looking for the date on it. I honestly couldnt believe it because if youre buying that beer you are clearly aware of craft beer and how dates on IPAs matter. I wonder how many of these people are out there who dont check the dates on craft beer they buy.
     
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  3. MistaRyte

    MistaRyte Pooh-Bah (2,681) Jan 14, 2008 Virginia
    Pooh-Bah Trader

    I like seeing beers in TW from breweries that went out of business years ago. (Brass Cannon beer in Norfolk TW for example)
     
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  4. TrojanRB

    TrojanRB Grand Pooh-Bah (3,779) Jul 27, 2013 Texas
    BA4LYFE Society Pooh-Bah Trader

    If I was fortunate enough to find Sip of Sunshine I wouldn’t check the date either. I would assume it’s so popular the stock is moving quickly and fresh.
     
  5. JackHorzempa

    JackHorzempa Grand Pooh-Bah (3,375) Dec 15, 2005 Pennsylvania
    Society Pooh-Bah

    @DarkDragon999 beat me to what I intended to post after reading the OP.

    We BAs are 'sophisticated' beer consumers and for the most part aware that we should check dates prior to purchasing beers. But the more 'casual' beer consumer (the majority of beer consumers?) are not spending many hours on BA and are less aware of the need to check dates prior to purchasing beers. When they purchase an old(er) product and find the beer to taste substandard (i.e., bad) they will blame the brewery and create the perception that Brewery X makes bad beer.

    There are many stakeholders when it comes to the craft beer industry: Brewery -> Wholesale Distributor -> Retailer -> End Consumer. But as I discussed in the above paragraph it is the brewery who likely has the most 'exposure' to being blamed for poor product.

    The challenge for the beer industry and the multi-tier distribution system is that each element can point fingers at others for the issue of old beer on the retailers' shelves (e.g., Victory stating "some retailers were unscrupulous").

    The topic of too much old beer on retailers' shelves has been discussed many times over many years (decades) on BA and it seems to me that as an industry there is no will for the various segments to get together to solve this vexing issue. It seems to me that they prefer to just point fingers and blame the other guy(s).

    I choose to conscientiously check dates. On a related note I recently purchased a stovepipe (not my preferred format) can of Cigar City Jai Alai which was canned on 9/17/24. I will be enjoying this beer later this evening - fresh is best!!

    Cheers!
     
  6. HoppingMadMonk

    HoppingMadMonk Grand Pooh-Bah (5,208) Mar 3, 2017 New Jersey
    BA4LYFE Society Pooh-Bah Trader

    I just purchased an oktoberfest from dock street from a local store that im sure is from last year. So, its on me but I'm okay with it.
    Big box store opened near by and is going to crush this guy so I prefer to support him and im guessing the beer is going to be ok.
    So to your point again,I suck it up,put on my big boy pants and take the responsibility for the purchase.
    Why I always tell my wife I never return fruit...its fruit,its a crap shoot if you peel it open and its good or not. Old beer and fruit is like Vegas, you have to accept its a gamble with sketchy odds
     
    #6 HoppingMadMonk, Oct 4, 2024
    Last edited: Oct 4, 2024
  7. JackHorzempa

    JackHorzempa Grand Pooh-Bah (3,375) Dec 15, 2005 Pennsylvania
    Society Pooh-Bah

    Just to clarify, there was no packaged on date for that beer?

    Cheers!
     
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  8. HoppingMadMonk

    HoppingMadMonk Grand Pooh-Bah (5,208) Mar 3, 2017 New Jersey
    BA4LYFE Society Pooh-Bah Trader

    I didn't look,I knew it was from last year
     
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  9. John_M

    John_M Grand High Pooh-Bah (6,849) Oct 25, 2003 Washington
    Mod Team Society Pooh-Bah Trader

    Which is exactly the reason certain distributors and retailers feel they can get away with selling old product. Some consumers may simply infer that they just got a substandard batch, figure they were unlucky and not give it a second thought.

    All the more reason to join BA, educate yourself about beer aging, and significantly reduce the chance of obtaining old, substandard beer. :wink:
     
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  10. Shanex

    Shanex Grand Pooh-Bah (4,960) Dec 10, 2015 France
    Mod Team Society Pooh-Bah Trader

    Like John_M it’s probably on me too.

    Without false modesty I’d consider myself a relatively knowledgeable guy regarding beers, styles and breweries from around the world.

    I’d like my IPAs and PAs fresh, not too much to ask, but it’s on me to check out dates.

    As for retailers, a pretty kind beer store owner gifted me in the past five-six months old IPAs which were not undrinkable just pretty flat and any hops were long gone and vanished. A freebie regardless from a beer store owner is rare, even as a faithful customer.
     
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  11. JackHorzempa

    JackHorzempa Grand Pooh-Bah (3,375) Dec 15, 2005 Pennsylvania
    Society Pooh-Bah

    Well, a potential "second thought" could be that a certain brewery makes shitty beer and that consumer may never purchase products from them again. And to boot, they may encourage their family & friends to also not purchased beers from that brewery since they suck.

    This is not a 'good game' for the brewing industry in the long(er) term. Never a good idea for a brewery and their business partners to sell substandard product.

    Cheers!
     
  12. elNopalero

    elNopalero Grand Pooh-Bah (5,822) Oct 14, 2009 Michigan
    Pooh-Bah Trader

    It’s not just beer. I found some ‘speciality’ coffee with best by dates from 2023 on the shelves.
     
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  13. BBThunderbolt

    BBThunderbolt Grand High Pooh-Bah (7,846) Sep 24, 2007 Kiribati
    Pooh-Bah Trader

    I rarely check dates. It's beer, it's gonna be fine. Not everything has to be an 'experience'.
     
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  14. John_M

    John_M Grand High Pooh-Bah (6,849) Oct 25, 2003 Washington
    Mod Team Society Pooh-Bah Trader

    I wasn't disagreeing with your previous post Jack. Unfortunately, I couldn't agree more. My observation was made from the standpoint of the retailer, as further justification for selling old, substandard product. I'm sure many feel as if the the harm done is negligible or non existent, and of course they don't want to incur the financial loss (or go thru the hassle of trying to get a credit from the distributor or brewery).

    Personally, I think their viewpoint is very short sided and self serving... albeit understandable and predictable.
     
  15. John_M

    John_M Grand High Pooh-Bah (6,849) Oct 25, 2003 Washington
    Mod Team Society Pooh-Bah Trader

    But aren't you also careful where you shop? If I recall correctly, there's a particular store in the 'ham' that you avoid, and if I recall correctly, their penchant for selling old, outdated product was one of the reasons. Also, I seem to recall you expressing unhappiness about a bottle of fh Killer Green that was a year old, passed off by the store as fresh product.

    In my experience, you're a pretty careful and discerning customer who does not appreciate inadvertently purchasing crappy/old beer.
     
    #15 John_M, Oct 4, 2024
    Last edited: Oct 5, 2024
  16. JackHorzempa

    JackHorzempa Grand Pooh-Bah (3,375) Dec 15, 2005 Pennsylvania
    Society Pooh-Bah

    It would be helpful to have good statistics here.

    I have read numerous posts from BAs where they state they stopped shopping at store X since they sold too many old, stale beers. As I alluded to above we BAs are a minority of the beer consumer segment and maybe casual beer consumers will continue to shop at stores that sell old product? Or maybe after a few bad experiences some casual beer consumers will change their purchasing habits?

    At the risk of being repetitious it seems to me that breweries are exposed the most since casual beer consumers they are likely to blame the brewery for bad product vs. the other elements of the supply chain.

    FWIW I have personally have given up advocating for the beer industry (e.g., Brewers Association) to take the problem of too much old products on the shelves seriously and take measures to fix this broken system. Personally I have an easy solution here, I brew my own beer. My last five batches of beer I brewed: English Bitter Ale, Saison, Ekuanot IPA, Wet hopped Harvest Ale and Belgian Dubbel. The Harvest Ale and Dubbel are in primary fermenters.

    Fresh is best!!

    Cheers!
     
  17. thebeers

    thebeers Grand Pooh-Bah (5,837) Sep 10, 2014 Pennsylvania
    BA4LYFE Society Pooh-Bah Trader

    I tried buying some hummus at the supermarket this morning and the first three I picked up were either past their expiration date or cracked. Too many retailers are trash, and it’s unfortunate that it falls on consumers to do their jobs for them.

    I actually applaud the dude pissed at Victory and wish his post was still up. I haven’t bought Hop Devil in ages — last time I did it was past the expiration date. It sounds like the retailer was probably at fault in the summary of the guy’s post provided here, but it doesn’t mean Victory couldn’t have given him a replacement. It’s a small price to pay to stay in a patron’s good graces. If the company’s argument is, “If we did that every time someone bought expired beer, we’d go broke,” that ought to tell you something.
     
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  18. John_M

    John_M Grand High Pooh-Bah (6,849) Oct 25, 2003 Washington
    Mod Team Society Pooh-Bah Trader

    I'm not a homebrewer and don't see myself becoming one anytime soon. So my solution is to educate myself about what to expect when I go to a beer store and to purchase accordingly. I'm fairly certain it's been at least 3 or 4 years since I last purchased old product.

    That being said, philosophically I think we see the beer landscape in the same manner. I've also given up expecting better behavior from retailers, distributors and breweries, so I do what I can to protect myself from "unscrupulous" conduct. I can't protect the rest of the beer buying public from making unwise beer purchasing decisions, all I can do is to try to protect myself and advocate that other like minded beer consumers do the same.
     
  19. unlikelyspiderperson

    unlikelyspiderperson Grand Pooh-Bah (3,966) Mar 12, 2013 California
    Pooh-Bah Trader

    I stand by my belief that the next big innovation in craft beer is on the distribution end of things. It's obvious that there is not great feedback from retailer to distributor to brewer and this results in lots of over production and then old shit sitting on shelves for unsuspecting customers to stumble into.

    A distributor that can implement a system that gets meaningful feedback between retailers and brewers in a manner that allowed retailers to make appropriate orders and brewers to get their brew schedule in line with demand would be a premium service provider for the industry. Of course, the trick will be to offer that service without costing an arm and a leg
     
  20. John_M

    John_M Grand High Pooh-Bah (6,849) Oct 25, 2003 Washington
    Mod Team Society Pooh-Bah Trader

    Not that it matters, but I agree with you. Some breweries probably would have done just that, but for whatever reason Victory apparently chose not to. Then again, it's always difficult to figure out exactly what happened when you're only hearing one side of the story.
     
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