Do brewers that produce multiple brands of lager use different yeast strains or do they use the same strain for all of their lagers? For example, does Pabst use the same yeast for PBR, Natty Boh, Stroh's, etc. or different yeast?
For lagers produced at the megabreweries they likely use the same lager yeast strain since this makes sense on many levels. They just need to propagate the one lager yeast strain and the performance of that one lager yeast strain is well known and yields predictable results: predictable production schedule, predictable attenuation performance, consistency as regards the sensory aspects (e.g., consistent flavor profile), etc. When it comes to smaller breweries they may, or may not, vary their choice of lager yeast strains depending on specific brands to achieve brand specific aspects. For example, Schilling Beer Co. will utilize differing lager yeast strains depending on their various brands: “Schilling Beer Co. utilizes a few specific lager yeast strains in their brewing process: Franconian Lager Yeast: This strain is used for their Jakobus German-style pilsner. It was first piloted in North America by Schilling and has a history tied to the Weihenstephan cellar in Munich. It contributes to the Jakobus' balanced character and subtle lemon and floral notes. House Yeast Strain: Their Italian-Style Pilsner, Aosta, uses one of their house yeast strains. Czech Lager Yeast: Schilling's Agustine Amber Lager gets subtle fruit notes from a Czech lager yeast. They also use a house Czech yeast strain for their limited-quantity lager, Veselý. "Nearly Extinct" Revived Lager Yeast: For their Landbier, an agrarian-style lager of Franconian origin, Schilling uses a unique lager yeast strain. This strain was reportedly revived from the cellars of Weihenstephan in Munich and is being used for the first time in North America by Schilling. Bavarian Yeast Strain: Their Landbier Dunkel utilizes a Bavarian yeast strain first piloted in North America by Schilling. Schilling focuses on using specific and characterful lager yeast strains to craft their diverse range of beers. They have curated two Czech and two German lager strains for this purpose, emphasizing their character.” On an ultra-small brewing scale (i.e., 5 gallon batches) I can report that in my homebrewery I will utilize differing lager strains best suited to the various lagers I homebrew to better suit the desired characteristics of each of those styles. In the past 6 months I have homebrewed four different ‘brands’ of lager using a differing lager yeast strain for each of those batches: Bohemian Pilsner, 1896 Michelob, Czech Dark Lager and Classic American Pilsner. These four brands will have varying fermentation aspects but I don’t have the pressure of a production schedule that impacts me as a homebrewer (vs. commercial brewer). Cheers!
I think the only real answer to your question is: some do, some don’t. Getting info on that can be a big challenge though. Your Pabst example is tricky because PBR has been recently brewed at different brewing companies (which doesn’t even get into what’s been done in the further past). So that’s a question of: “Is all PBR brewed with the same yeast?”
That's a good question. I would think that since all PBR is brewed to Pabst's specifications regardless of where it is brewed that the same yeast would be used, but what do I know?
Is it? And who actually is "Pabst" at this point in time? I believe the beer is part of a portfolio owned by a large holding company using "Pabst" as a recognizable name. @jesskidden
FWIW I would presume that the PBR brewed at an Anheuser-Busch brewery was fermented using the AB house lager yeast. Too much of pain to use a so called Pabst yeast strain for production reasons. Cheers!
I did a stint working at Great Lakes in Cleveland and in the production brewery, they used two strains. Their house lager, which is quite distinctive, and a readily available ale strain (I forget which one). The pilot brewery (2 barrels) and brewpub system (7 barrels) had a lot more freedom. But if they were looking to scale a smaller recipe up, they had to figure it out with the main two strains.
I don't know how much it would cost for AB to change yeast strains when brewing PBR. I could see Pabst paying for it if it didn't cost too much.
This is from Pabst's announcement this past January that A-B would be contract brewing its beer: Pabst’s proprietary recipes will continue to be used under the oversight of master brewer and supply leader John Kimes, alongside the company's brewing and quality assurance teams.
It is not so much a cost issue as it is a production management issue. Large scale breweries do not want cross contamination issues in the plant. Cheers!
In 2008, after the Miller - Coors US merger, a MC spokesperson told the Denver Post, in reference to brewing Coors Light in the former Miller breweries: Yuengling and MC did a promo event at the start of the contract brewing of the Pennsylvania brewery's beers in Texas that included an armored truck delivery of their recipe book and "Yuengling's proprietary yeast". After getting the contract to brew Kirin in the US in the 1990s, Anheuser-Busch in L.A. used their proprietary yeast, which was "housed in a special room within the plant". Boston Beer Co. has long stressed that their "host" breweries* use their "proprietary yeast strain grown in Boston, (which) belongs to Boston Beer". * That has included brewers such as Pittsburgh, Heileman>Stroh, Genesee, F X Matt and Miller > over the years. After City bought the former Latrobe (Rolling Rock) brewery, BBC spent money for upgrading that facility, including equipment allowing the use of the BBC proprietary yeast strains. OTOH, the current Pabst owned brands originated at probably over a dozen different breweries, many changing hands several times before being acquired in 1999 at the demise of Heileman/Stroh - so using the original yeast seems unlikely. A MC employee "LAD" who posted frequently on BA noted over the years that Stag, Old Milwaukee, Schmidt's and Black Label brewed at Ft. Worth were the same recipe, as were Old Style and Lone Star. Pabst head brewer at the time, Greg Deuhs, admitted that the then-current recipe for Ballantine Ale brewed at MillerCoors (which was probably fermented with bottom fermenting yeast) was "a compromise and the best MillerCoors can do with its limitations." When Pabst tried to revive the other Ballantine ales (Burton, Brewers Gold, IPA) they contracted at Cold Spring in MN. Some of the macro breweries are more versatile than others owned by the company. AB has typically brewed ales (and their former craft brands) at the Baldwinsville NY facility (bought in 1979 from Schlitz which only opened it 1977. AB totally renovated it after purchase) and the relatively new Ft. Collins CO brewery. Other AB ales have come out of the Merrimack, New Hampshire brewery (including Bass Ale and a short-lived (only test market?) 1980s O'Doul's Irish-style Pale Ale). AB once brewed a SNPA imitation called Pacific Ridge Pale Ale which I think came out of their Fairfield CA brewery - maybe a choice based on geography rather than brewery flexibility? Miller usually brewed their contract-brewed craft beers (SABL, Pete's) in the now defunct Eden, NC. When Pabst revived Schlitz, it was first brewed there as well because Milwaukee wasn't equipped correctly for that (supposed) Schlitz 1960s "Gusto" recipe. MillerCoors later upgraded the brewery.
I feel vindicated! I thought that Schmidt's tasted like Black Label after Heileman started making it. Not bad, but different than it taste when it was brewed in Philly. I also thought that some of the brands made by Schmidt's tasted exactly like Schmidt's.
Yes, they do. But that doesn't mean that Pabst's recipes aren't being followed or that Pabst employees aren't involved in overseeing the brewing process of their beers. Several years ago I tried to figure out how many of the 49 US brewing concerns that were listed in Robertson's 1978 book were still in business. It got hard to do. Some of the breweries are clearly still in business and others are clearly defunct. But it was harder to categorize some like Pabst, Pittsburgh Brewing and Jones Brewing Co. of Smithton PA, which had closed their plants but continuously continued to contract brew their beers. Dixie (now Falmouth) also existed only as a contract brew for about 10 years after Hurricane Katrina. I also ended up putting Miller on the defunct list but Coors on the still in business list.
I'm surprised that Pabst hasn't put more effort into Schmidt's of Philadelphia. Do they even make the merged C. Schmidt/Jacob Schmidt beer anymore? I live in Maryland, where Natty Boh is still very popular. Pabst updates the packaging for Natty Boh, including orange cans during baseball season and purple cans during football season (without specifically mentioning the Orioles and Ravens). About 15 years ago, their website started announcing that "Today, Natty Boh has returned to the traditional recipe that made it the beer of choice in Baltimore and across the Mid-Atlantic." So Pabst puts some effort into the brand, like they do for some others like Old Style. But they seem to do nothing with Schmidt's.
As a FYI there is a relatively new brewery (they celebrated their 5th anniversary a couple of weeks ago) called Von C Brewing that is owned by three brothers with ties to Schmidt’s Brewery of Philadelphia: “Family Brewing History The Von C family is part of the family that started C. Schmidt & Son brewing in 1860. Our grandfather, Carl von Czoernig, was the great-grandson of Christian Schmidt, who came to Philadelphia from Machstadt, Württemberg, in 1851, with the famous strain of lager yeast that made Schmidt’s so popular back in the day. Our father was a master brewer, our grandfather was a master brewer and so on, all the way back to the founding father of Schmidt’s. Brewing great beer in Philadelphia is in our blood. At one point in time, two out of three drafts that were poured in Philadelphia were Schmidt’s beer. To the Philadelphia tavern customer, Schmidt’s and beer were practically synonymous. Even though it was only distributed in 14 states, Schmidt’s was able to sell over 2 million barrels of beer a year to an incredibly loyal customer base. People remember Schmidt’s being the biggest and best beer brewed and served in Philly. von C Brewing Co. will not only be tapping into that history, but it will bring it back and make history of its own.” https://voncbrewing.com/family-brewing-history In addition to the family, they also have an old-time brewer from Schmidt’s that also works at the brewery as a consultant: “Mr. Adam Brozzetti joined Schmidt’s in 1969 as a Co-Op student while receiving his BSc in Chemical Engineering at Drexel University. After graduating in 1973, Adam joined Schmidt’s and received his Master Brewers diploma from the Siebel Institute of Technology. Adam spent 18 years at Schmidt’s as Assistant Brewmaster, Brewmaster and Director-Production Operations. When the brewery closed in 1987, Adam joined G. Heileman Brewing Company and was responsible for brewing operations at four of Heileman’s eight facilities. Adam was an active member of the Master Brewers Association, as President of District Philadelphia and Treasurer of MBAA National Office. Adam also spent 13 years with The PQ Corporation where his intimate brewing knowledge was instrumental in PQ’s successful introduction and market leadership of silica gel stabilization to brewers worldwide. Adam will be responsible for the calculation of von C Brewing Company’s recipes and act as our consultant throughout the startup phase.” https://voncbrewing.com/team-members Von C Brewing produces a beer they brand as OG Pils which they market as being akin to a lager that was brewed by Schmidt’s from back in the day: “OG Pils Legendary Philly Lager American Lager 4.9% ABV Norristown, PA This is our take on a family recipe dating back 6 generations. Our very pale American Lager has been built on a base of pale 2-row barley, 6-row barley, and flaked maize to create the most thirst quenching and neutral flavor profile possible. Very light body and drinkable.” I am a fan of OG Pils and last evening was quite pleasant and my wife and I went there for a few beers while sitting in their beer garden listening to live music. I drank a couple of glasses of OG Pils. Cheers! P.S. There is also a BIG mural in the brewery's taproom of Schmidt's from back in the day:
Yeah, it was Heileman that "merged" the two Schmidt('s) brands they owned, having purchased the MN Jacob Schmidt when they bought most of the Associated Brewing Co. breweries and brands in 1973 and most of the (Christian) Schmidt's of Phila. brands (brewery closed) in 1987, brewing the latter brands for the northeast market in Baltimore at the Carling-National brewery. In 1992, they started packaging both beers in the same cans, same labels BUT they continued to use the different recipes for the mid-West and Mid-Atlantic markets Kinda proving that, for macros, packaging cost more than ingredients... First time I saw those wildlife Schmidt cans (did they use that "The Beer that grew with the great Northwest" slogan?) back then being sold around here, I was pretty confused.
Beyond the aspect of a specific lager yeast strain, the specific fermentation conditions can be impactful to the sensory qualities of the resulting beer. Some of the variables: · Fermentation temperature (schedule) · Yeast pitch rate · Wort oxygenation amount prior to yeast pitch · Fermenter geometry · Etc. With careful attention to detail many of these should be able to be replicated at a ‘guest’ brewery but fermenter geometry might be a wild card. Beyond the aspects of lager yeast strain and fermentation conditions, replicating the brewing water could be a variable as well. On an anecdotal level I have a sister that now lives in Texas and she has a very sensitive palate and she states that the Yuengling Lager brewed in Texas (at the MolsonCoors brewery in Ft. Worth) does not taste the same. I offered up my opinion (and it is just an opinion) that maybe it might be a difference in the composition of the brewing water. When I go to visit her I ‘smuggle’ a six-pack of Pennsylvania brewed Yuengling Lager which make her very happy. Cheers!
I was confused by Schmidt's ("brew that grew with the great Northwest") packaging even earlier, when the Minnesota Schmidt's showed up in Oregon, likely in the 70s. Minnesota was halfway across the country from the the "great northwest" as I knew it.
