Chimay Blue is a Quadrupel, not a Tripel. I think I will have to call a foul here since you are taunting us American BAs. Cheers!
I really enjoy New Belgium's Honey Orange Tripel. It's easy for me to get and well worth the price. La Fin Du Monde is great. I can only get it when I travel north of my location. I stock up. Don De Dieu is amazing also. I haven't had it in years because my area's distributors parents were never married.
Great thread, thanks for starting it @Shanex. Just a heads up for anyone in the San Diego area, I picked up four bottles of De Garre yesterday from Bine and Vine, if you have never tried it, this is your chance. I just checked the web site and it appears it is still available, but from my talk with Geoi yesterday, it didn't seem like he had much left.
This thread is why I’m trying to work my way around Tripels, as well. But I’ve got to drink more of what I already have first.
All of this discussion on Tripels has motivated me to take a bottle of Victory Golden Monkey out of the fridge and drink it. This beer is very good – excellent! Is it at the level of Westmalle, St Bernardus, Tripel Karmeleit, etc.? Not exactly but it is ‘knocking at the door’. Cheers to Victory Golden Monkey! @goodbyeohio , Golden Monkey is as good as ever!!
ai seems to think that they started upping the non-malt sugar source around 2011 for this beer, and then changed the overall dryness and mouthfeel around 2015. i've found that both of those things make for a drier, simpler, less complex beer which is more drinkable. i just think i preferred the older, more full-bodied, sweeter version that was available in the 00's. not saying the new one is bad (its certainly clean!) but it's just not for me anymore.. also, when did they start adding coriander to it?!?!
Dang forgot to keep up with this thread Anyway here’s a dumb anecdote: Pike Brewing here in Seattle (RIP their original location) has a tripel called Monk’s Uncle that is available all over the place. One day years ago we were having a poker tournament at work, and I brought a six-pack of it. Which I then proceeded to drink all of. Took second place!* But also on the bus home I sat next to a coworker (who hadn’t been playing poker) and 100% didn’t recognize him for the entire ride. Next day he was like … did you see me? I was right next to you. So maybe don’t drink a six pack of tripel is what I’m saying. Stay in school, kids! * First place was a friend of mine who doesn’t drink at all. So … a lesson in extremes I guess
I think that is a really interesting point, and I have been thinking about what actually drives that perception. From what I understand, it may not come down as much to things like open fermentation as people sometimes assume. A big part of it seems to be yeast, specifically the continuity of house strains and how they have been maintained over long periods of time. A lot of Belgian breweries have been working with the same yeast cultures for decades, letting them evolve within the same environment and practices. That kind of continuity is hard to replicate, even if you are using a similar strain elsewhere. So it might be less about one specific technique and more about that long term consistency and history behind the process.
I suspect you’re right, and wonder why American brewers don’t just use the same yeast. Are the Trappist and other yeast strains proprietary? Can one not buy them or isolate and recreate them themselves? Genuinely curious about this.
I think part of it is that even if you can buy or isolate a similar Belgian strain, that still does not fully recreate what those breweries have built over time. A lot of those breweries have had continuity with house cultures, repitching practices, fermentation conditions, and brewery environments for decades. So even when a comparable strain exists commercially, you are not necessarily reproducing the same history behind it.
Giovanni, there is an aphorism that we brewers often state: brewers make wort, yeast makes beer. While yeast strain selection is part of the fermentation process, as you pointed out there are lots of choices we brewers make in order to obtain a beer with our target sensory aspects. Creating favorable fermentation conditions. One choice we make is fermentation temperature(s). When is comes to Belgian Trappist/Abbey style beers (e.g., Tripel) some brewers choose to pitch the yeast a little on the lower side (e.g., mid-60’s) and then let the exothermic action of fermentation increase the fermentation temperature to reach a target (maybe 74 °F). My personal practice is to start warm(er) and maintain that temperature throughout. Another choice is pitch rate. Some brewers choice to ‘under-pitch’ with the theory this ‘stresses’ the yeast and thereby increases the development of esters (fruity flavors). I personally choose to just slightly under-pitch. A conservative brewer would choose to pitch more yeast. Re-pitching is an interesting aspect since it requires conscientious monitoring to know when the yeast has ‘evolved’ to a point it is less desirable. A rule of thumb that some commercial brewers use is to stop re-pitching around 5-10 times and then introduce switch to using a new propagated yeast. Needless to say but this is yeast strain and fermentation conditions dependent. There is no reason that brewers in America can’t perform this function wisely. You made mention of open fermentation and this is an important consideration. Not just the open part but also the aspect ratio of the open fermenter. Some breweries have open fermenters that are as wide as they are tall. Others will have differing aspect ratios which will indeed be impactful to the sensory aspects of the resulting beer. I could go on but… Cheers! P.S. I have a Dubbel in my primary fermenter right now. I used my favorite Belgian Trappist ale yeast (Wyeast 3787) which is reportedly the Westmalle yeast strain. I am fermenting at 73 °F at the present moment.
The best beer I ever made was a tripel with Wyeast 1214, the Chimay strain. Re-pitched from a batch of Belgian pale ale so I over-pitched, if anything; started fermentation at 59° and let it slowly raise to 65°. I made more tripels after that but was never able to replicate my success from that one amazing batch
That is a great breakdown, and I appreciate you laying that out there in detail. I was actually thinking along similar lines and was going to touch on some of those points, but you came in and explained it and I was waiting for such a reply. That actually lines up with what I was getting at, just from a broader perspective. All of those decisions you mentioned, temperature, pitch rate, re-pitching, even fermenter geometry, are exactly the kinds of things that build over time within a single brewery. So even if someone is using the same or a similar strain, it is really the combination of those practices and how consistently they are applied over years that shapes the final character. That continuity is what I was trying to point toward, and you explained really well what that looks like on the process side. Cheers This is something I have also seen on the coffee side. I have spent a lot of time working with coffee roasting and brewing, and even coming from a water chemistry background, those same variables and small adjustments over time really add up. I have always appreciated how transferable those ideas are across different crafts.
What are your thoughts on "terroir" as is it relates to a Tripel? To me, terroir is much more evident in a wine or a cheese than in beer, but, Jack, you mentioned open fermentation, and of course, ingredients always play a role — is there something to where a beer is made that goes beyond myth-making and marketing?
Giovanni, permit me to expound upon the concept of "consistently". In my prior post I discussed the fermentation aspect of brewing, and FWIW I believe that fermentation is indeed the most important of the many brewing steps, but there are other considerations. A beer like Budweiser is generally looked down upon by the BA community but the brewers of AB take inordinate steps to ensure that Budweiser in the US (and beyond?) are brewed to be exactly the same. In the US there are a dozen (some slated to close soon) breweries that produce Budweiser. Since much of the beer ingredients are crops (e.g., barley (barley malt), rice, hops) these ingredients are constantly being tested at the Pilot Brewery in St. Louis. Based upon this testing the various lots of ingredients being using at the dozen breweries are 'fine tuned' in the brewing process to ensure product consistency. The other 'tool' that the brewers use at each of the dozen breweries is blending. They will sensory check all of the beers in the various large lagering tanks and based upon that evaluation they will decide how to best blend batches (e.g., mix all of tank A with x% with the beer from tank B and y% with the beer from tank C). I doubt that many smaller breweries have the same Pilot Breweries to test all of the ingredients coming into the brewery. Maybe they 'spot check' some of the ingredients coming in (sniff the hops from some of the hop bags, look at the Malt Analysis Sheet for the barley malt(s) they purchased, etc.) and make brewing process decisions accordingly. If they have their own lab where they propagate their yeast they have some level of control here (maybe taste yeast viability/vitality?). Some craft beer customers are more forgiving as regards a given brand's batch variation. Some are less forgiving. And the ultimate 'wild card' when it comes to purchasing packages (e.g., canned, bottled) beer is how old those beers and how were they handled/treated in transport. Cheers!
Part of that topic is addressed in my post above, which I typed as you posted. Where a beer is produced (e.g., a brewery in the US vs. a brewery in Europe) can be less impacted by terroir. Let's just keep this on the topic of brewing a Tripel: Malt When I homebrew my Tripel my choice is a Belgian made Pilsner Malt, specifically Dingemans Pilsner Malt. A US commercial brewer could make the same choice. And the brewers at Westmalle could also make this choice. In this scenario we would all be brewing with the same ingredient (with the understanding there may be lot variation, discussed above). But there are a number of other malt vendors which could be chosen for the Pilsner Malt (including form non-Belgian malting companies) so there can be variability here but I personally would not characterize this as being a terroir thing. Sugars I personally choose to just use table sugar (cane sugar) when homebrewing my Tripel. It is likely a Belgian brewer would choose to use a candi sugar/syrup instead. I am uncertain what a US brewer would choose here. Maybe buy the same candi syrup product as somebody like Westmalle would buy? Hops Yes, hops are indeed a terroir kind of thing but since they are typically sold by hop vendors, US brewers (including me) could possibly buy the same product as the Belgian brewers. Having stated that perhaps we might all select differing hop varieties so there is that consideration. FWIW I prefer to use Styrian Golding hops (grown in Slovenia) for flavor/aroma in my Trappist style ales. With all of that stated above, a Tripel is for the most part driven by the yeast/fermentation conditions. I choose to purchase the Westmalle yeast strain and I select fermentation conditions to maximize that yeast strains flavor production (i.e., ferment warm, slightly under-pitch, ferment in a bucket with a 1:1 aspect ratio, etc.). Cheers!
