Unwanted Whales Clarification

Discussion in 'Beer It Forward' started by Urbancaver, May 9, 2012.

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  1. Urbancaver

    Urbancaver Initiate (0) Nov 13, 2009 Ohio

    Since I know a lot of people have been following this BIF series and may have seen the chaos last night and the night before I want to post up a clarification of what happened and how it is being resolved:

    During the first round of the BIF I created algorithms for identifying disparities between personal rankings and overall rankings that help to match people up with the highest possible beer on their rankings.

    These algorithms and the ordering of the rankings did not take in to account different vintages of the same bottle. More specifically, when a list is sorted by bottle and it contained:
    Cable Car 2007
    and
    Cable Car 2010
    they were not always sorted in the same order.

    As a result, the rankings database ended up with switched ranking numbers for some individuals.
    This was a mistake that I should have caught but did not and is in no way the fault of the person ranking the bottles.

    As a result of this, Beatification batch 2 and Ph1 were also not always recorded correctly.

    That said, because of the mistakes in the rankings, 2 people received bottles that they ranked significantly lower than their own bottles. They were both part of a very large chain.


    To remedy this situation I was fortunately able to cut the chain in half. One half of the chain will be closed back into a loop by one of the people (who has fortunately not yet shipped) sending to a different target.

    There are however, 8 people that will have to return the bottles they received. It sucks but there is no other way to remedy it.

    So, that said. I am adjusting algorithms for future rounds and still deciding whether to go forward with round 3. I do not want to end up with another mistake occurring.

    For those following the BIF, in the BIF, or just concerned in general with the comments last night:
    I apologize greatly for the mistakes that were made. I hope this will not effect your desire to participate in future BIFs or effect your opinion of me. If anyone has problems with me or the way this has been handled please do not hesitate to contact me:
    [email protected]

    Thank you all for your understanding!
     
    #1 Urbancaver, May 9, 2012
  2. surlytheduff

    surlytheduff Initiate (0) Jul 22, 2010 Tajikistan

    I'm not a participant, just curious: two people are affected, right? They received bottles that they had ranked lower than what they sent out. One of the two people got a Beatification b2 - if you were to find someone that would do a 1 for 1 trade of the Beat b2 for something from the list of beers that they had ranked higher, wouldn't that sort of 'fix' the issue? I realize that might not be an easy task, but neither is shipping back a whole bunch of bottles.
     
    #2 surlytheduff, May 9, 2012
  3. Urbancaver

    Urbancaver Initiate (0) Nov 13, 2009 Ohio

    if it were that easy it would have already been done
     
    #3 Urbancaver, May 9, 2012
  4. Tnudish

    Tnudish Initiate (0) Feb 16, 2012 Wisconsin

    Problem is that no one above him wanted that beer since it already dropped to him
     
    #4 Tnudish, May 9, 2012
  5. surlytheduff

    surlytheduff Initiate (0) Jul 22, 2010 Tajikistan

    I was thinking of trying to reach outside of the initial group. Cam has a lot of friends local and distant plus past trading partners; I just thought if there was some way to reach out to a larger group and find someone that would/could step up and offer a trade of a beer that was ranked above the beers that the shorted individuals for whatever they had received, it might be a way to remedy this. Having said that, I don't have a good understanding how this whole process works, and don't know if doing that would somehow negatively impact the other trades that happened.
     
    #5 surlytheduff, May 9, 2012
  6. jsilva

    jsilva Initiate (0) Nov 10, 2009 Massachusetts

    So basically two peoples hopes and dreams got crushed and have to send their whales back? That def sucks and hopefully will be made right even though looks like people will be out shipping money.
     
    #6 jsilva, May 9, 2012
  7. Urbancaver

    Urbancaver Initiate (0) Nov 13, 2009 Ohio

    Yeah, a few people are out some shipping money... but its the best I can do given the situation :slight_frown:
     
    #7 Urbancaver, May 9, 2012
  8. Verecund

    Verecund Initiate (0) Aug 31, 2008 Texas

    With all due respect to the amount of work you've put into these BIFs, wouldn't the best you could do in this situation—a situation created by you and for which you alone can be blamed, so far as I can tell—be to pay for, or at least subsidize, the shipping of the affected parties?
     
    #8 Verecund, May 9, 2012
  9. AnnArborJoe

    AnnArborJoe Zealot (534) Jan 18, 2011 Michigan
    Trader

    I've been following and participated in Round 1. I appreciate your public post of the situation and how it is being resolved. I hope everyone ends up feeling OK about the resolution. I imagine the management of these BIFs has taken a great deal of effort that we all appreciate. Cheers!
     
    #9 AnnArborJoe, May 9, 2012
  10. bauermj

    bauermj Initiate (0) May 4, 2009 Illinois

    I think the dust is settling, a few bottles adjusted, and maybe 2 of us will have to ship boxes back and another 2-3 will have to in-person swap back.
     
    #10 bauermj, May 9, 2012
  11. Tnudish

    Tnudish Initiate (0) Feb 16, 2012 Wisconsin

    Good work gentlemen. Good to see things get resolved between everyone.
     
    #11 Tnudish, May 9, 2012
  12. AgentZero

    AgentZero Initiate (0) Jul 19, 2009 Illinois

    I'm good, don't even have to pay to reship, so that is a nice bonus. Will swap stuff out when I'm back next week.
     
    #12 AgentZero, May 9, 2012
  13. brandon0350

    brandon0350 Initiate (0) Dec 11, 2010 California
    Trader

    My original whale is getting shipped back to me and the bottle im supposed to get will be shipped back once it arrives. It sucks to eat shipping cost twice and end up with your original bottle. I sent a message to the BA whos bottle im supposed to return and hopefully we can come up with a new trade to keep the bottle he sent me :/
     
    #13 brandon0350, May 9, 2012
  14. cosmicevan

    cosmicevan Initiate (0) Dec 13, 2009 New York
    Trader

    fingers crossed that everyone packs safely and the shippers handle the boxes properly.
     
    #14 cosmicevan, May 9, 2012
  15. NarcoSolo

    NarcoSolo Initiate (0) Jan 1, 2012 Pennsylvania

    My whale is returning home. Sadness. Oh well. FT: Cable Car 2010 if anyone is interested. :slight_smile:

    Thanks for all your work anyway, Cam. Honest mistakes happen.
     
    #15 NarcoSolo, May 9, 2012
  16. AgentZero

    AgentZero Initiate (0) Jul 19, 2009 Illinois

    Oh yeah, FT: Isabelle Proximus ISO: One of the 11 beers I ranked higher :wink:
     
    #16 AgentZero, May 9, 2012
  17. pushkinwow

    pushkinwow Initiate (0) Dec 20, 2006 Canada (ON)

    What did you rank higher?
     
    #17 pushkinwow, May 10, 2012
  18. AgentZero

    AgentZero Initiate (0) Jul 19, 2009 Illinois

    Midnight Sun 'M'
    Cantillon Don Quijote
    Wooden Hell
    Cable Car Kriek
    Bullfrog Black Cherry Bomb
    Cantillon Brabantiae
    Apple Brandy Hunahpu
    Beatification PH1
    Pappy Dark Lord
    3F Millenium Geuze
    Veritas 004

    I actually got the PVW DL yesterday, but will be returning it. Both PH1 and Millenium Geuze moved, but I don't know if I could have gotten those as well and was just unfortunate enough to be part of the chain that needed to reverse, or if I was just never in the running for those. Based on some rankings I know, MG could have come my way with the sender getting Framboos, assuming a home for Izzy was found in the chain. Oh well, guess someone had to draw unlucky.
     
    #18 AgentZero, May 10, 2012
  19. brystmar

    brystmar Initiate (0) Sep 2, 2009 Texas

    Nobody else does either -- except the organizer -- and that seems to be the problem. The overall concept was posted, but the details are not public record. And this must be remedied before another round of this BIF begins.
     
    #19 brystmar, May 10, 2012
  20. Shagtastic

    Shagtastic Initiate (0) Jul 30, 2011 Indiana

    I don't see why it MUST be remedied. It is his BIF and he is free to do what he wishes with it. It was a mistake that could have happened to anyone and no one is being forced to join. I'm sure the bunch of people who were turned down would jump at a chance to join the next round even with this mistake.
     
    #20 Shagtastic, May 10, 2012
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