Do Americans not appreciate imported saisons?

1.) Have enjoyed a number of European saisons that I have had.

2.) while the average US Saison is not great, the blanket dis is unfair to places like Prairie, which makes world class funky brews.

 

Have you tried Bitter Monk, Boulevard Saison-Brett, or Hop Savant? IMO the funk can play extremely well with whole-cone hops, and these three are my favorites so far.

Underlined because I strongly prefer my hoppy belgians/wilds to be whole cone like the above 3. IMO the earthy spiciness blends perfectly with the funk, making the hops seem much more fruity and floral than normal.

 

You guys at mystic also do a fabulous saison, my apologies. What I mean is that some breweries release saisons that taste like an amateur home brewer kit saison compared to products like yours or oxbow.

 

Just wondered what you were trying to say with "lab yeast." Genuine, traditional Saison and Lambic are the Mordor of Brewing. There are certain complex cultures that few want to tangle with. I don't know who uses what in every case but there are certain characteristics that only a few breweries in the US and Europe that have been able to achieve. This is actually what i think is the most fun about brewing saison but it takes a lot of dedication to get right. I agree that passing off a chico yeast wheat beer with grungy amounts of spice is likely just train jumping.

 

I blame the hop shortage for all the crap saisons out there.

 

There have been some great points about good and bad saisons, but American love for them boils down to demographics, and this country is way, WAY too large for generalized statements about our interest in one particular style of beer. There are a number of regions where saisons sell like gangbusters, others where it is heavily neglected.
This may have to do with the each region's local breweries producing or not producing good saisons, but the availability of the great import saisons seems to obviate this. Time of year is critical as well, as the weather affects the pursuit of beers in this style.
Any accurate discussion of the matter would need to take into account more than a person-by-person favorite list of saisons.

 

Based on a bit of limited historical information it would appear that these folks did the first Belgian IPA.

http://www.beeradvocate.com/beer/profile/321/27804/

An they do make that claim on their web site.


But it seems these folks are pretty much responsible for theim catching on in the US.

http://www.beeradvocate.com/beer/profile/1339/26159/

So you'll have to go to Belgium to chat with the perpetrators of the style.

 

Having had Belgian Saisons quite a bit during a two week business trip to Brussels a couple of years ago, I think part of the difference you and others are finding is the pre-selection factor. What the importers select to bring into the US are the best examples of the style they can find. (Not every Saison on offer in Belgium is as good as those you list.) There is no such "educated judgment" pre-selection factor at work in the variety of domestic Saison style beers on offer here in the US.

That said, while they are not identical to Belgian brewed Saisons, I personally find many American brewed Saisons both quite tasty and competitive with the best of Belgium. For example, I think GI Sofie, Ommegang Hennepin, and several of the Stillwater Saisons are every bit as good as those that are imported into the US.

Focusing on Hennepin for a moment, I can think of no really good reason why a Belgian style beer brewed in the US by a Belgian owned company specializing in Belgian style beers targeted to compete favorably with Belgian imports would be inferior to another Saison just because other was brewed in the US rather than in Belgium. Slightly different? Yes. Inferior, not to my tastes.

 

The HF offerings are good and balanced, but Dupont takes the cake imho, and fantome is very good and unique

 

I think no matter your own preferences and palate both countries have amazing examples of a highly polarizing style of beer. I know several people who like Belgian style beer but not those with Brett, some who dislike Belgians altogether, some who only enjoy saison with funk, or only without....it really depends on the person.

Not to say that one is better than another but imo saison DuPont is the benchmark for a clean saison with no funk, however my recent front runner is das wunderkind by jester king. Not a traditional example by any means, but the funk, the lightness of the body and the barrel aged aspect make it a home run in my book. Does that mean it's better than dupont? No, it's just different.

I don't think American brewers should be chastised for putting their own spin on a very diverse style, as Belgian brewers shouldn't be chastised for adhering to the traditions that have made the saison/farmhouse ale a very popular style of beer.

 

I agree, very few American brewers make a saison that is even passable. I do like Hennepin, but Allagash's saison is awful. Some places like HF and Tired Hands make some excellent funky saisons, but none that I've tasted can make a classic farmhouse ale that compares to DuPont. In fact, I'd go so far as to say that American brewers simply lack the ability to make bone-dry Belgian ales like saison and tripel that are anything even close to what is made in Belgium. Of course, the Belgians have decades of experience on the Americans when it comes to those styles, so it shouldn't be surprising that that's the case. I think the American farmhouse ale is almost a different style than the classic Franco-Belgian farmhouse ale - it's usually not as dry and more spicy than funky. Some, like SaisonHands, are excellent beers in their own right, but different enough that maybe it's not even fair to compare the two as if they're the same style.

 

AFAIK, no, or at least precious few, European breweries can either.

 

There is just so many saison options (like most beer styles) from American craft brewers that they are all over the map in quality. Depends on which ones you've been fortunate or unfortunate to be able to sample. There are several on par or better than many of the top Belgian offerings. The Belgian offering are just more reliable to be good ones if you pick up a random one from your bottle shop or order in a pub.

 

Below is an extract of an interview with Phil Markowski (PM) who wrote the book Farmhouse Ales:

“1. You write "Ask ten Belgian brewers 'What is saison?' and you'll likely get ten different answers. Nearly all will give you a response that is tauntingly vague."

PM: Typical answers I was given were "a brew for the season," "something that is dry, but not too dry" and "it should be special." I don't believe that these brewers are mum in the interest of national security (although the Belgians can be every bit as chauvinistic as the Germans about their native brews), I think it highlights a basic difference in how Belgians and Americans think about brewing. They tend to talk about it as an overall experience, we want cold, hard specifications; we want physical information.”

http://www.realbeer.com/edu/6-pack/

So, in Belgium there seems to be a lot of latitude on what defines what is a Saison.

Why do some BAs think that one beer (Saison DuPont) defines what a Saison is?

Cheers!

 

Just to piggy back off this, in Craft Beer and Brewing magazine, it happens this months issue is about saison. Inside Chad from Crooked Stave gives his impressions of what a saison should be and where the style began. I am paraphrasing, but he goes into how the original saisons were overly hopped in an effort to get them to keep over the winter.

 

I'd just add the caveat that the "overly" is relative. I can't think of old-school Belgian examples that would read as hoppy on the American palate. Hops as preservative don't necessarily play big in the flavor profile -- the gueuzes have big heapings of hops, but with the bitterness aged out, for example. I don't think this cuts against your point.

To the aside on the Belgian IPA, I've had the feeling those two fine examples may have had exports in mind, but also acknowledging American influences -- it's a two-way street. In neither case would I say it was a longstanding local trend breaking out abroad. None of this is, in any way, a bad thing.

 

Boy is my face red, I've just realized that I got the two links reversed. The Urthel predates the other.

I think you are right on about the influence. The woman who brewed the Urthel says somewhere, I think it was on their website, that she was curious about the influence the American hops would have on flavors of the base style.

 

We're Americans. We don't appreciate anything! Seriously, not really familiar with the style so I'll leave now.

 

I think that using copious amounts of hallertauer or saaz is a completely different ballgame than using copious amounts of citra, Chinook, mosaic, or even cascade. That is, however, the hallmark of American brewing is taking the influence of a style and using American ingredients. Look at the pale ale, ipa, and even stouts. It's our legacy as American brewers and beer lovers. I do think the things that are going on with saisons in America are great, but agree that while there are stand outs, I fear that more popular they become the more people are just going to turn them out. Look at the IPA market right now. There are so damned many, but I can only point to a few standouts that I actually enjoy.

 

I agree with many peoples sentiments, there are some Saisons that are too sweet (Hennepin, Sofie) , some that are overly hopped in a bad way (Jack D'Or), and some that are just not good (Anchor and Stones new saisons). But, there are some amazing examples being brewed in the US. Since nobody had yet, I'll give a huge plug to my local, Sante Adairius Rustic Ales. Saison Bernice, Cask 200, Lucybelle, Farmhouse noir, the list goes on and on of top notch funky and tart farmhouse ales. Also, to anybody who doesn't like Belgian IPAs, I would suggest you give Prairie Hop a try if it they release it again. It was one of my favorite beers of 2013.