What are your Top 3 AKs?

Discussion in 'Beer Talk' started by patto1ro, Jul 19, 2014.

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  1. JackHorzempa

    JackHorzempa Grand Pooh-Bah (3,375) Dec 15, 2005 Pennsylvania
    Society Pooh-Bah

    Maybe Ron will visit McMullen Brewing and ask to see their brewing logs?
     
    #141 JackHorzempa, Jul 22, 2014
  2. zid

    zid Grand Pooh-Bah (3,132) Feb 15, 2010 New York
    BA4LYFE Society Pooh-Bah Trader

    Agreed... and that thinking is one reason why I made that post.
    Folks like Martyn and Ron clearly face many challenges in their work.
     
    #142 zid, Jul 22, 2014
  3. patto1ro

    patto1ro Pooh-Bah (2,084) Apr 26, 2004 Netherlands
    Pooh-Bah

    I've never found an AK that old. I'll have a root about in the newspaper archive when I have time.

    I'd be amazed if it really did date back to 1832. There were hardly any Pale Ales being brewed outside of a couple of places, let alone a running Pale Ale.
     
    #143 patto1ro, Jul 22, 2014
  4. JackHorzempa

    JackHorzempa Grand Pooh-Bah (3,375) Dec 15, 2005 Pennsylvania
    Society Pooh-Bah

    Ron, if you contacted McMullen brewery do you think they would make the primary source information available to you?

    Cheers!

    Jack
     
    #144 JackHorzempa, Jul 22, 2014
  5. thewrongtone

    thewrongtone Zealot (743) Oct 15, 2006 Arkansas

    Not sure if you had the old or new recipe of Commercial Suicide. It is supposed to be a nod to the English Mild, but oak aged. The new version is fermented with wild yeast and souring bacteria, so it has gone off the rails.
     
    #145 thewrongtone, Jul 22, 2014
  6. spicoli00

    spicoli00 Pooh-Bah (2,305) Jul 6, 2005 Indiana
    Pooh-Bah

    #146 spicoli00, Jul 22, 2014
    Bitterbill likes this.
  7. southdenverhoo

    southdenverhoo Pooh-Bah (1,567) Aug 13, 2004 Colorado
    Pooh-Bah

    I get the perhaps erroneous impression Ron is not too interested in McMullen's in general or the AK in particular, except to the extent he's annoyed with them for being at least partially responsible for the whole "AK is a mild" thing. I would be curious as to his opinion however, even were it to be negative, as McMullen's is the only AK (so labeled) I've had.

    Did you read all those AK recipes linked above? only one mentioned using much in the way of crystal malt, a bit of C75 if I recall, most of the others seeming like they would be pretty pale. Although I'm not sure the color influence of the "invert sugar #2" in some of them, or the caramel colorant. But I recall the McMullens AK as looking quite like the one in the video from the brewery website, a dark amber/burnished copper. The reference in the website to chocolate malts make me think this is an outlier among AKs...
     
    #147 southdenverhoo, Jul 22, 2014
  8. southdenverhoo

    southdenverhoo Pooh-Bah (1,567) Aug 13, 2004 Colorado
    Pooh-Bah

    #148 southdenverhoo, Jul 22, 2014
  9. JackHorzempa

    JackHorzempa Grand Pooh-Bah (3,375) Dec 15, 2005 Pennsylvania
    Society Pooh-Bah

    I will confess that when it comes to this thread I have no clue what Ron is up to. I am being repetitive but I am disappointed in this thread.

    The reason that McMullen AK is a dark amber is because they used some chocolate malt in their grain bill. I mentioned in a previous post: “I was a little bit surprised to see that chocolate malts were used to brew the McMullen AK.”

    Cheers!

    P.S. I did not read the AK recipes that were linked (lack of time mostly).
     
    #149 JackHorzempa, Jul 22, 2014
  10. patto1ro

    patto1ro Pooh-Bah (2,084) Apr 26, 2004 Netherlands
    Pooh-Bah

    I'm certainly interested in McMullen's AK. I forgave them calling it Mild long ago.

    Why don't the recipes contain crystal malt? Because crystal malt is pretty recent ingredient for British Pale Ales. Just about unkown before WW I, used a bit between the wars, only common in the 1950's. I'm sure an 19th-century McMullen's AK would have been much paler.
     
    #150 patto1ro, Jul 22, 2014
  11. patto1ro

    patto1ro Pooh-Bah (2,084) Apr 26, 2004 Netherlands
    Pooh-Bah

    It depends on whether they still have the primary source information. There's no guarantee they do. That 1832 date just seems to be when they moved to Mill Bridge.

    Not had a chance to do any digging until now. Poking about the British Newspaper Archive, I can't find a McMullen's price list earlier than the 1850's. This one is from 1858:

    [​IMG]

    Plenty of different beers, but no AK. A typical AK price was 36s. per barrel.

    Nice to see they sold Barclay Perkins Porter and Stout.

    I'm going to root around a bit more to see when AK is first mentioined in their adverts.
     
    #151 patto1ro, Jul 22, 2014
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  12. azorie

    azorie Pooh-Bah (2,471) Mar 18, 2006 Florida
    Pooh-Bah

    #152 azorie, Jul 22, 2014
  13. markdrinksbeer

    markdrinksbeer Initiate (0) Nov 14, 2013 Massachusetts

    Martyn mentions 1836 as the earliest advert date, but it does not mention AK by name: "In 1836 McMullen’s first advertisement appeared in the local press, for XX ale at one shilling a gallon and X beer at eight pence"

    Question: could a brewer have brewed a beer, but not advertised it? I ask because absence of advertisement, to me, does not mean that the beer did not exist, or did it?
     
    #153 markdrinksbeer, Jul 22, 2014
  14. patto1ro

    patto1ro Pooh-Bah (2,084) Apr 26, 2004 Netherlands
    Pooh-Bah

    If it's aged by definition it isn't a Mild.
     
    #154 patto1ro, Jul 22, 2014
    Last edited: Jul 22, 2014
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  15. southdenverhoo

    southdenverhoo Pooh-Bah (1,567) Aug 13, 2004 Colorado
    Pooh-Bah

    well here's what I'm making next:

    3.75 lb Optic, Fawcett
    1.50 lb US 6 row, Briess
    1.0 lb "Ashburne Mild", Briess

    .5 lb Flaked Maize, Generic

    1.0 lb Lyle's Golden Syrup
    .25 lb Lyle's Treacle

    1.75 oz East Kent Goldings 4.0 AA, 90 minutes

    .5 oz East Kent Goldings 4.0 AA, 30 minutes
    .5 oz Willamette 4.1 AA, 30 minutes

    .5 oz East Kent Goldings 4.0 AA, whirlpool
    .5 oz Willamette 4.1 AA, whirlpool

    Wyeast 1028/White Labs 013 (Worthington White Shield)

    give it a week, then prime with Sugar In The Raw (demerara) sufficient to get to 2.2 volumes CO2; add keg finings and dry hop:

    .25 oz East Kent Goldings 4.0 AA
    .25 oz Willamette 4.1 AA

    per beertools, at my usual 72% efficiency this should work out to OG 1.039, should finish at FG 1.010, for an ABV of 3.9%, SRM 7.95, IBU 41.5

    and per Kris Englund's notes should probably be a little too much toffee for his taste--all that Lyle's Golden Syrup--but I'm not messing with making my own invert sugar until I try this and decide I agree with him.

    [seems similar to an ordinary bitter except maybe paler, drier, and slightly more bitter. But Kris' dry hops, and accordingly mine too, seem kind of stingy]
     
    #155 southdenverhoo, Jul 22, 2014
  16. patto1ro

    patto1ro Pooh-Bah (2,084) Apr 26, 2004 Netherlands
    Pooh-Bah

    Yes, they didn't necessarily advertise every beer. Those are both Mild Ales.

    But you have to realise what McMullen was: a small provincial brewery. In the early 19th century that sort of brewery made Mild Ales and maybe a Porter and Stout.

    AK was a really trendy beer when it first arrived, despite being fairly weak. It was one of the beers you would usually not only mention in an advert, but give prominence to. Partly because it was a good earner for breweries. It was weaker than X Ale, but sold for the same price. I've plenty of examples of adverts where AK is very prominent.
     
    #156 patto1ro, Jul 22, 2014
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  17. patto1ro

    patto1ro Pooh-Bah (2,084) Apr 26, 2004 Netherlands
    Pooh-Bah

    Brewery marketing departments are terrible sources. In my experience, even the current brewers have little idea of what was made in their brewery 50 years ago, let alone 180.

    I think I know as much about 19th-century British beer as anyone. I've found no mention of running Pale Ales (which is what AK was) before 1850. That type of beer just didn't exist in the 1830's, based on the tons of evidence I've seen. Which isn't to say that I wouldn't change my opinion, should any proper evidence come my way. In fact I'd be chuffed if I could move back the origin of AK. But I'd need proper evidence to do that, not a marketing claim.
     
    #157 patto1ro, Jul 22, 2014
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  18. StuartCarter

    StuartCarter Pundit (922) Apr 25, 2006 Alabama

    Ron, just to check if I am understanding this style - an AK was a slightly lower ABV, slightly higher IBU, drier (no toffee notes, so maybe more sugar than syrup) bitter?
     
    #158 StuartCarter, Jul 22, 2014
  19. drtth

    drtth Initiate (0) Nov 25, 2007 Pennsylvania
    In Memoriam

    Any chance we can get you, @cavedave @wesbray @Providence and @AlcahueteJ all talking in a special thread in the home brewing forum about each of you trying out an AK recipe and then using this thread here to tell the rest of us about how it came out? Who knows, what you might all wind up with. And you could probably get some feed back from @patto1ro and then the non home brewers among us could benefit from what you all learn/think about the end results, etc.
     
    #159 drtth, Jul 22, 2014
    Providence likes this.
  20. patto1ro

    patto1ro Pooh-Bah (2,084) Apr 26, 2004 Netherlands
    Pooh-Bah

    AK was the classic Running (unaged) Pale Ale. I suspect many AKs, like Fuller's, were parti-gyled with stronger Stock Pale Ales. So paler, just because of the lower gravity, but hopped at about the same rate. Probably not drier than IPA, because of the lack of secondary conditioning. AK is the ancestor of modern Bitter, more so than IPA or Stock Pale Ale. You could argue that these were early Session IPAs.
     
    #160 patto1ro, Jul 22, 2014
    machalel, azorie, Matthew1788 and 2 others like this.
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