Monsambacher (?)

In the US, bold flavors are currently "in", there's no doubt. But which is better? The Germans have spent the last 20-30 years taking the flavor out of their beer. Truly anti-cyclical developments.

 

Dumbing up is just as bad as dumbing down. It's not a competition for which dumbness is better. And only one is calling itself "craft" beer.

 

I could understand the appeal if the product contained a normal amount of alcohol (for people who don't like beer), but when it's practically non-alcoholic as well I just don't see the purpose it serves, or its appeal. If people want a watered down version of a regular beer with little alcohol I could see them opting for a leicht, at least those bear some ressemblance to beer. I just don't understand how fruit flavored low abv beverages can work as a substitute for beer.

 

By saying that they are not "coaxing" flavors out of their raw materials is implying that someone else is (the Germans), and it's simply not the case.

Also, if you ask me, most US brewers are getting a lot of flavors out of the malts & hops which is why it's different than BMC. Just guessing, but I would say that 90% of US craft beer is brewed according to RHG.

 

If they are getting enough, say, coffee and chocolate flavors out of their roasted malts, then why add real coffee and chocolate? Obviously the U.S. "craft" drinking public wants more....

The RHG stipulates that only naturally produced CO2 can be used to carbonate the beer. I doubt even 1% of U.S. "craft" beer is produced that way.

 

Sorry, but almost no German beers use only their own CO2. They collect it to save money, but augment with CO2 from the CO2 factory.

 

Do you have documentation that definitively proves this claim? Also, I assume the CO2 from the "factory" (not sure what this means) was produced naturally as a part of the fermentation process. Otherwise, this is a clear violation of the RHG. I have read about many things German brewers do that would seem to violate the RHG (use of Sinamar, hop extract, etc.), but I have never heard nor read the claim that they use artificially produced CO2.

EDIT: just found this:

Da gibt's rieeeesige Fabriken für, der Volksmund nennt sie auch Brauereien!

Überall wo etwas in größeren mengen vergoren wird wird auch das entstehende Kohlendioxid aufgefangen gereinigt und verarbeitet. Wobei Brauereien das meiste dann selber verwenden, z.B. zum Karbonisieren, Vorspannen, Leerdrücken, Abfüllen... Aber aus Erfahrung weiß ich, dass auch die CO2 Lagertanks in Brauereien mal leer werden können, und dann wird auch angeliefert. Dieses CO2 muss dann eben aus einer Gärung entstanden sein, sonst dürfte es nicht ins Bier.

@ Jakobus

 

Oh boy, another US craft beer vs. German beer debate.

Non-cheers!

 

I don't think you need to apologize for either liking the beer or possibly initiating a debate about German Biermixgetraenke. If you like grapefruit flavors, I would expect you to like them in a Radler as well as in a grapefruity IPA (or even an IPA brewed with grapefruit, like Stone's recent offering).

 

Sorry for the thread hijack Gorilla...

I will check with a few brewer colleagues and get back to you. As I recall from my school days, it was decided that "industriell hergestelltes CO2" has the exact same natural composition of CO2 created by fermentation, so there is no chemical difference to speak of.

Christian Bosch (Bosch Brauerei) just told me that almost no German brewery under 100,000 HL has a (hold onto your German hats) "Kohlensäusrerückgewinnungsanlage" because it costs more to collect than to buy.

Could be in the Lebensmittelgesetz or in the Zusatzstoff-zulassungsverordnung, not sure.

 

Really? This has been around here for some 20 or so years. Usually a Pilsner is used, but given the extreme sweetness of Coke, it wouldn't really matter. I think, on the Niederrhein (the Düsseldorf-Duisburg-Western Ruhr-area) they use cheap and bad Altbier (like Diebels) and call it a Krefelder.
In the southwest and in France, red wine with Coke is also a popular mixed drink. I also heard about people mixing rather sour, dry white wine (like Riesling) with Coke.

 

Saw my first around 1992 -- nearly gagged. Figured it must have been around longer than that.

 

A popular drink in Bavaria is the so called "Goaßmaß" which is basically half a liter of coke, half a liter of dark beer and 2 or 3 shots of Cherry liquor. Makes you drunk fast, gives you a raging headache for 3 days and when you puke it back up (which, after the usual dose of 5 or 6 of those babies you WILL) it's even worse than you would imagine from my already colourful description.

Recently I've seen this premixed and bottled in a Getränkemarkt. My gut reacted with a rather violent contraction even though the last time this vile mix has gone down my gullet was 35+ years ago... *cringe*

 

What I find even funnier is that people here at BA seem to bash the Lime-Bud or whatever it's called, but seem to rate (quite highly on BA) Schöfferhofer's Grapefruit Weizen, though they're basically the same thing: a beer/juice cocktail! It's one thing to brew with fruit juice, for then the yeast has its influence on the flavor outcome by consuming the sugars in the juice, but to simply dump juice and filtered/pasteurized beer together... where's the art in that? The only reason Schöfferhofer's Grapefruit Weizen got on the tap list in the first place in an American Craft Beer fest is sheer ignorance of German beer by American Craft Beer enthusiasts. Whether it tastes good or not is another topic, and for me, it tastes horrible.

There are so many good American hops which impart all kinds of intense fruit flavors and become integrated into its flavor because they're added during the brewing process, which makes me wonder why add juice AFTER the pasteurization process?

Unless... it's 1) cheaper or 2) it appeals to the same folks who are Red Bull & cocktail drinkers. Guess what... the answer is #2. It's the Radeburger Gruppe's lame attempt to lure women and the teen/20-something crowd who drink only cocktails and Red Bull mixed with vodka or whatever, who eschew beer as an old fashioned drink of their granddads, and give them a low alcohol alternative.

According to my student, Schöfferhofer's lineup, which also includes their true Weizen, is their best selling brand. That's unfortunate for 2 reasons. 1) a mixed drink is outselling all beer brands, which is the staple of the brewery business, and 2) The above-mentioned target groups still aren't drinking beer and beer sales are still declining rapidly in Germany per annum. Do you know what Radeburger's best seller is in the Jever line-up? Jever Fun, a non-alcoholic beer.

Nonetheless, @gillagorilla, I hope you got to try the Mahrs Bräu beers, the Fritz Ales and the Freigeist beers, as well as the Schneider Weisse beers and the Weissenhoe. Sorry to have been a downer to your thread. Again, I just wish they'd serve them in bars or other places here in Germany.

 

That's not what I've read. Back a hundred years or so ago I saw arguing in a technical publication that CO2 collected from a fermentation because it also contained some flavour compounds was superior to that produced industrially.

 

I have an inquiry in to Dr. Wolfgang Stempfl, a brewing guru and headmaster @ Doemens, and I hope he can shine some light on the topic at hand.