BAD / GOOD beer traders lists not updated?

Help Discussion in 'BeerAdvocate Talk' started by NiceBeerCans, Nov 24, 2014.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
Page 1 of 2
  1. NiceBeerCans

    NiceBeerCans Initiate (0) Mar 16, 2013 New York

    Been reading recent threads on the Beer Trading Talk & Help, especially the recent Bad Trader Alerts threads. Wondering about the following:

    1. Why are the bad traders on these threads not being added to the BAD beer traders list (under Trading), even after the threads are closed without beer being delivered or even after the member was permabanned by Todd.

    2. Why do you list some members on both lists just because they have a lot of good trades but cited for bad trade(s).

    I think updating the lists is important since most BA members will not read every Bad Trader Alert threads. Do not reward members by placing them on GOOD beer traders list when they have bad trades, which is why they are also on the BAD traders list too. Most people won't notice that fact and trust the trader as being special. My two cents. Thanks.
     
    #1 NiceBeerCans, Nov 24, 2014
  2. Todd

    Todd Founder (13,518) Aug 23, 1996 Finland
    STAFF Mod Team Society Pooh-Bah

    1) They do update, but they're based on using the feedback system, recent activity, and don't include users who've been banned; that would be pointless as you're not going to be trading with banned users.

    2) I've updated the lists. Good = the most active users with 100% reputation, ordered by number of good trades. Bad = the most active users with bad trades, ordered by number of bad trades. But at the end of the day you should be making a call based on the beer trader's overall profile/feedback.
     
    #2 Todd, Nov 24, 2014
  3. Todd

    Todd Founder (13,518) Aug 23, 1996 Finland
    STAFF Mod Team Society Pooh-Bah

    But here's a question, and part of the thinking before the above change: If a BA who's essentially a good trader with numerous good trades messes up once, why should they be penalized so harshly? Maybe it was a bad trade from their early days and they've learned since?

    Which is why we allowed the feedback system and reputation form the lists.

    I'm going to take another look at the lists and probably make a few more adjustments.
     
    #3 Todd, Nov 24, 2014
  4. NiceBeerCans

    NiceBeerCans Initiate (0) Mar 16, 2013 New York

    Unfortunately, traders with numerous good trades feel that they can absorb a bad trade feedback, especially since it may be listed under other pages (because they have so many trade feedbacks). How about listing the bad feedback first so it shows up on the first page? This way they would try to work (extra hard) with the other trading partner to get it fixed/amended.
     
    #4 NiceBeerCans, Nov 24, 2014
    JavaNoire likes this.
  5. Todd

    Todd Founder (13,518) Aug 23, 1996 Finland
    STAFF Mod Team Society Pooh-Bah

    It's not necessarily unfortunate. In many cases it shows that they've learned. Listing bad feedback first in these cases only serves to rub a past mistake in the faces of a lot of traders who aren't really bad. And their bad trade count is already listed in their stats for those who care.

    I think a different approach the lists is required. One based on overall reputation.
     
    #5 Todd, Nov 24, 2014
  6. NiceBeerCans

    NiceBeerCans Initiate (0) Mar 16, 2013 New York

    OK. Is this why BarofGold is now off the BAD traders list and now on the Good traders list? BarofGold is the only one with less than 100% reputation. The bad trade was this year, March 17th. Does he really deserve to be on the GOOD beer trader list? If you want to take him off the BAD traders list because of his high number of good trades, I might see your point. However, don't endorse him by putting him on the GOOD traders list. Aespi clearly stated to "Avoid this one" and gave a "bad trade". Let BarofGold be on neither list.
     
    #6 NiceBeerCans, Nov 24, 2014
  7. Todd

    Todd Founder (13,518) Aug 23, 1996 Finland
    STAFF Mod Team Society Pooh-Bah

    You're basically saying that if a BA gets one bad trade, but has dozens or even hundreds of good trades, they can never be considered a good trader. This doesn't work for me.
     
    #7 Todd, Nov 24, 2014
  8. JayORear

    JayORear Grand Pooh-Bah (3,058) Feb 22, 2012 California
    Society Pooh-Bah Trader

    With all due respect, I don't think anyone should make a decision about trading based only on the Good/Bad lists, which are sort of falsely objective about a subjective process. Read the actual trade feedback, contact their former trade partners, and look up their threads. When I receive responses to an ISO, I always go and look at the threads they've started or contributed to. They can say a lot about the kind of person they are.
     
    #8 JayORear, Nov 24, 2014
    JavaNoire and mythaeus like this.
  9. Todd

    Todd Founder (13,518) Aug 23, 1996 Finland
    STAFF Mod Team Society Pooh-Bah

    Yep. Basically what I said earlier.
    The lists are just the surface. BAs should be digging deeper before trading.
     
    #9 Todd, Nov 24, 2014
  10. NiceBeerCans

    NiceBeerCans Initiate (0) Mar 16, 2013 New York

    No, but I consider BA members who are on this list to be like they are in the Hall of Fame. Why not stick to the 100% reputation? BarofGold could have contacted Aespi, who has way less trades but 100% reputation, to make things right. BarofGold will and still does get trading partners, so no problem for him. Just not a sterling reputation like the others in the "Hall of Fame". You're not punishing BarofGold by just not putting him on the special list.
     
    #10 NiceBeerCans, Nov 24, 2014
    JavaNoire and mythaeus like this.
  11. NiceBeerCans

    NiceBeerCans Initiate (0) Mar 16, 2013 New York

    I certainly agree with both of your statements. However, I hope you can see my point I'm making to you.
     
    #11 NiceBeerCans, Nov 24, 2014
  12. Todd

    Todd Founder (13,518) Aug 23, 1996 Finland
    STAFF Mod Team Society Pooh-Bah

    I removed our back and forth over tagging, and made a final change for now ...
    • Bad = Has under 90% rep.
    • Good = 100% rep.
    Which is much better than before, and allows BAs to work towards getting off the Bad list.
     
    #12 Todd, Nov 24, 2014
    mythaeus, blue-dream and F2brewers like this.
  13. NiceBeerCans

    NiceBeerCans Initiate (0) Mar 16, 2013 New York

    Sounds good and fair to me. Glad we could hash out our thoughts together. Think BA's (especially members new to trading) will like the new look. Thank you Todd.
     
    #13 NiceBeerCans, Nov 24, 2014
    F2brewers likes this.
  14. dheldman

    dheldman Maven (1,255) Feb 7, 2011 Minnesota

    As someone who has had to give a "bad" rating I'm not ok with letting people just work past it. If a trade is resolved the trader can go back and edit the trade feedback from "bad" to "ok" or "good" for that matter. In contrast, if a user has a bad trade under their belt that is not resolved there should be consequences. In my case I sent beer and received no beer in return. This is stealing and stealing is not something that should be worked off through other good trades. Instead I would like to see a situations where the user has to go back and make the original trade right before they can more on to a new trade. Sort of like how Paypal manages disputes. If both parties can reach a conclusion there is no bad blood and everyone moves on with there lives. If a conclusion is not met the person can't trade any longer. Seems fair to me.
     
    #14 dheldman, Nov 24, 2014
  15. Todd

    Todd Founder (13,518) Aug 23, 1996 Finland
    STAFF Mod Team Society Pooh-Bah

    Sounds unrealistic to me. Mistakes happen, things don't work out, people give unfounded bad feedback, and sometimes people learn their lesson and become a better beer trader. Bad feedback isn't always about someone getting ripped off either.
     
    #15 Todd, Nov 24, 2014
  16. dheldman

    dheldman Maven (1,255) Feb 7, 2011 Minnesota

    Ok, but what about those trades where someone did get ripped off? Shouldn't we have a way to deal with those instances?
     
    #16 dheldman, Nov 25, 2014
  17. Todd

    Todd Founder (13,518) Aug 23, 1996 Finland
    STAFF Mod Team Society Pooh-Bah

    We do. You start a bad trader thread and give them a chance to defend themselves or give them bad feedback. And mods may get involved with bad trader threads based on the situation.
     
    #17 Todd, Nov 25, 2014
    blue-dream likes this.
  18. dheldman

    dheldman Maven (1,255) Feb 7, 2011 Minnesota

    #18 dheldman, Nov 25, 2014
  19. Todd

    Todd Founder (13,518) Aug 23, 1996 Finland
    STAFF Mod Team Society Pooh-Bah

    #19 Todd, Nov 25, 2014
    Highbrow, Yohann and blue-dream like this.
  20. BarofGold

    BarofGold Initiate (0) Oct 10, 2013 Vermont

    I just happened across this forum, had no idea I was the topic of conversation.
    Felt like I should put in my 2 cents as my name and situation was being discussed.

    I think your solution to this question/issue looks good Todd, I think the good traders list should include 100% good completion along with a high rate of trades. I dont by any means think I should have been added to the bad traders list, and Im glad this did not happen. For all BA'ers it is up to us to converse with each other and dig deeper into all situations and make judgements based off of that. With nearly 100 trades completed and 1 bad posting I do feel I am still a good trader and do what I can to keep that reputation.

    Cheers
     
    #20 BarofGold, Nov 25, 2014
Page 1 of 2
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.