Bohemian Dunkel recipe...doesn't add up

Discussion in 'Homebrewing' started by herrburgess, Dec 2, 2014.

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  1. herrburgess

    herrburgess Grand Pooh-Bah (3,053) Nov 4, 2009 South Carolina
    Pooh-Bah Society

    As much as I plug in the numbers provided in the recipe quoted here for U Fleku's Cerne Pivo, the SRM just doesn't add up. http://old.brewersassociation.org/p...as/show?title=style-spotlight-bohemian-dunkel

    Specifications
    OG just from the mash: 1.048 (12 °P)
    FG: approx. 1.012 (3 °P)
    SRM: 43.4 SRM (114 EBC)
    IBU: 28
    ABV: 4.8% (3.8% ABW)

    Ingredients
    For easy scaling, all quantities are calculated for 1 U.S. barrel (1.173 HL) net kettle volume produced by a brew system with a nominal extract efficiency rating of 75 percent. If your system is different, adjust all qualities up or down accordingly.

    Mash
    21.68 lbs. (9.83 kg) Weyermann® Floor-Malted Bohemian Pilsner Malt @ 1.8 °L (50%)
    13.01 lbs. (5.96 kg) Weyermann® Munich I @ 6 °L (30%)
    6.5 lbs. (2.95 kg) Weyermann® CaraMunich® II @ 45.5 °L (15%)
    2.17 lbs. (0.98 kg) Weyermann® Carafa® II @ 45.5 °L (5%)
    Total grain bill: 43.36 lbs (19.67 kg)

    Every calculator I use comes out at around 25-26 SRM. The U Fleku I drank in Prague is a far darker beer -- around the 43 number quoted above. Now, I realize that the decoctions will darken things up a bit, but nowhere close to enough to make up the difference. For reference I am providing a pic of a 25 SRM beer, Olde Mecklenburg's Dunkel

    [​IMG]

    and U Fleku

    [​IMG]

    My fear is that the author of the article cited, Horst Dornbusch, has once again gotten things, well...wrong.

    Any help on getting to the latter type of SRM without jacking up the roasty malts to the high heavens would be helpful and much appreciated. Quite honestly, though, I am tempted to not even follow this recipe at all given how far off the SRM is. I just can't believe that the rest is somehow correct. Cheers!
     
    #1 herrburgess, Dec 2, 2014
    Last edited: Dec 2, 2014
  2. bergbrew

    bergbrew Initiate (0) Jan 12, 2004 Minnesota

    That Carafa II number is suspect.
     
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  3. JohnSnowNW

    JohnSnowNW Initiate (0) Feb 6, 2013 Minnesota

    Yeah seems like a zero is missing from that Carafa II
     
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  4. herrburgess

    herrburgess Grand Pooh-Bah (3,053) Nov 4, 2009 South Carolina
    Pooh-Bah Society

  5. hopfenunmaltz

    hopfenunmaltz Pooh-Bah (2,611) Jun 8, 2005 Michigan
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    Time to throw Dornbusch under the bus again?

    Do you plan on a 120 min boil?
     
  6. herrburgess

    herrburgess Grand Pooh-Bah (3,053) Nov 4, 2009 South Carolina
    Pooh-Bah Society

    I just want a true U Fleku recipe. The fact that the recipe he posted seems to be way off is IMO a pretty egregious error.
     
  7. bergbrew

    bergbrew Initiate (0) Jan 12, 2004 Minnesota

    I just plugged it into the spreadsheet I use and I'm getting high 40s.
     
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  8. herrburgess

    herrburgess Grand Pooh-Bah (3,053) Nov 4, 2009 South Carolina
    Pooh-Bah Society

    Mind sharing the spreadsheet? If not, totally understand. I've had very good results with both the brewersfriend and tastybrew ones, so I tend to trust them. Would be more than happy if they are off in this instance, as a good recipe is more valuable than either of those calculators in this instance.
     
  9. JackHorzempa

    JackHorzempa Grand Pooh-Bah (3,181) Dec 15, 2005 Pennsylvania
    Pooh-Bah Society

    A few comments:

    The beer style that is served at U Fleků is a Tmavý Ležák.

    I homebrewed a beer where I used the recipe that Horst Dornbusch as a basis and my Tmavý Ležák turned out pretty dark.

    Perhaps @premierpro can provide some input here. He drank my homebrewed Tmavý Ležák at the 2014 NHC but just as importantly had the U Fleků Tmavý Ležák this summer during a vacation to the Czech Republic.

    Cheers!
     
  10. JohnSnowNW

    JohnSnowNW Initiate (0) Feb 6, 2013 Minnesota

    I'm only getting 20 SRM, in Brewcipher, when using 31 gallons as the amount. This is not factoring the decoction.
     
    #10 JohnSnowNW, Dec 2, 2014
    Last edited: Dec 2, 2014
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  11. herrburgess

    herrburgess Grand Pooh-Bah (3,053) Nov 4, 2009 South Carolina
    Pooh-Bah Society

    Can you explain the difference between Cerne Pivo and Tmavý Ležák a bit further? My understanding was the the former is a generic term and the latter a more specific one, but with basically the same translation/connotation (black/dark beer vs. dark lager). Still, happy to be educated here, as I always just referred to it as U Fleku at the tavern (and "ein Dunkles" elsewhere...after asking if they speak German, of course). Maybe @ChrisLohring can help?

    EDIT: Also, what SRM did you end up with in your version?
     
    #11 herrburgess, Dec 2, 2014
    Last edited: Dec 2, 2014
  12. herrburgess

    herrburgess Grand Pooh-Bah (3,053) Nov 4, 2009 South Carolina
    Pooh-Bah Society

    Just saw this. Plan for 100 min.
     
  13. patto1ro

    patto1ro Pooh-Bah (1,998) Apr 26, 2004 Netherlands
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    Tmavý Ležák is a specific gravity range: 11-12º Plato. Cerne Pivo is a dark beer of any strength.
     
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  14. patto1ro

    patto1ro Pooh-Bah (1,998) Apr 26, 2004 Netherlands
    Pooh-Bah Society

    He hasn't even got the OG right - it's a 13º Plato beer.
     
  15. premierpro

    premierpro Savant (1,060) Mar 21, 2009 Michigan

    Jacks beer was very tasty but not a clone of U Fleku. I sampled 5 different Czech dark lagers and the U Flecu was the only one where I could taste a slight roast character. I wrote a few comments while drinking a few of these. I believe that this beer is most all Moravian Pils with enough dark malt for color. I tasted no caramel malt in this beer.And I believe that there are no late addition hops. I am drinking my own interpretation of one now. I used 1.5 pounds of carafa 2 in 10 gallons. It is too roasty like a Schwartz bier. Next time I will knock down the carafa 2 by .5 lb. Good luck with your trials!
     
  16. herrburgess

    herrburgess Grand Pooh-Bah (3,053) Nov 4, 2009 South Carolina
    Pooh-Bah Society

    Thanks for the info. And I agree that there is a slight roastiness to the U Fleku (that is nicely balanced by the soft mouthfeel and spicy Saaz hops). The more I look into it, the more I see that Dornbusch's recipe is not going to produce a beer like U Fleku. Wondering, though, what he witnessed (or thinks he witnessed) during the brewday. Very frustrating stuff.
     
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  17. JackHorzempa

    JackHorzempa Grand Pooh-Bah (3,181) Dec 15, 2005 Pennsylvania
    Pooh-Bah Society

    "...not a clone of U Fleku." That is 100% correct. I used the Horst Dornbusch recipe as a 'springboard' but I did indeed freelance here.

    Cheers!
     
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  18. herrburgess

    herrburgess Grand Pooh-Bah (3,053) Nov 4, 2009 South Carolina
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    What was your beer's SRM?
     
  19. JackHorzempa

    JackHorzempa Grand Pooh-Bah (3,181) Dec 15, 2005 Pennsylvania
    Pooh-Bah Society

    I don't have an exact number to provide here; I do not brew using brewing software.
     
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  20. herrburgess

    herrburgess Grand Pooh-Bah (3,053) Nov 4, 2009 South Carolina
    Pooh-Bah Society

    Can you provide an estimate?
     
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