Averagely Perfect Saison - Poll #30 - Flavor/Aroma Hops Continued

Saaz is hard to beat. What would these other hops add to the Czech greatness that is Saaz?

 

The Saaz Consortium came out of nowhere in poll 29C. I'm not sure which, if any, of these hops will lend any supporting/complementary flavors to saaz (possibly Syrian Golding). I voted none. If saaz is in then I want to be all in for saaz.

 

I was tempted to go with Styrian Goldings just because I've never used it, but why complicate it? To me saisons are about simplicity. I'm mostly just happy that Nelson didn't get carried through.

 

I'm not sure which, if any, of these hops will lend any supporting/complementary flavors to saaz (possibly Syrian Golding)

I find StG goes with Saaz like Abbot & Costello or Fred & Ginger or more contemporarily, Beyonce & Jay-Z.

tempted to go with Styrian Goldings just because I've never used it, but why complicate it?

One brewer's complication is another's complimentariness (if that's a word?).


Just be aware, with Amarillo on the ropes, any hope of distinctive dh'ing rides with the Slovenian import . . .

 

Hallertauer and saaz make sweet love as well.

 

Granted . . . Hallertauer (and EKG) would represent themselves well at FO/DH. For @VikeMan , you say Straight Plurality . . . but if the collective vote for "something in addition to Saaz" is greater than None, is there is a prayer another flavor/aroma hop will be added? Or is a majority in a single hop-category required? Just worried that splitting votes = a shot in the foot.

 

Okay flavor/aroma lovers, the guantlet of challenge has been cast down. As of this posting the vote is 16 NOTA (what are they thinking?) and 16 voters who desire an extra layer of delicious flavor and aroma.

The lovers of flavor and aroma (LoF&A) can turn this tide. This will make for strange bedfellows, but we have to consolidate votes. My Plan: at start of business mañana, whichever wonderful flavor hop is leading will be the consolidated choice. If there is a tie then the hop most represented in the dual-hop slots will tip the scales. Right now the tie is StG and Hall, but the dual-polls give a one point lead to Hall. We (LoF&A) will look at this in the morning and switch our votes. It's easy, just click this button and re-vote:

If a third tie-breaker is needed then we take the highest hop at the top of the list (desperate times calls for desperate measures). All we have to do is consolidate and turn a couple of voters. This can be done.

For the NOTA: No attempt here to make an IPA or have a hop bill as long as your arm. There is nothing wrong with bittering (future poll) with a flavor/aroma hop, so don't think this is going to be a goat-rope. For 24 IBU we are looking at something like Saaz (1.0, 0.5, 0.5), bittering/late/dh. Then, for an additional layer of flavor something like StG or Hall (0.0, 0.5, 1.0). This will end up with ~3.5 ounces of hops total, which would make a Belgian land-owner brewing for his farmhands break out in a big smile. Interrupteur pour la Victoire!

 

My response: Meh..... I like saaz by itself.

 

@PortLargo I'm in. A blend almost always adds a layer of complexity, even if subtle.

 

I refer you to the very first post in this thread. What do these other hops add to the greatness that is Saaz? I am happy to change my vote, but adding other hops for the "complexity" of it is not a good reason. Have you used any of these combos in saisons? Especially with 3724? Or 644? I get that the other 3 are good hops (I love EKG in a bitter), but I have never used any of them with Saaz. FWIW, I have only used Saaz in a couple Czech Pils, never a saison.

I am not worried about IBUs (or making an IPA), I voted for 30 IBUs. Also, this vote is just for Flavor/Aroma additions which I take to be the last 20-30 mins of the boil. We could do this like the Averagely Perfect IPA and hopburst the shit out of this with Saaz and not have any bittering hops.

So, my vote is for sale, but you have to work for it a little

 

Because Saisons are not Czech??

 

Affirmatiave, multiple times. My favorite to compliment Saaz is StG, but EKG and Hallertau certainly work well. My brew notes reflect nothing but good mixes here.

Multiple times, also with 3726, 3944, 3724/3726 combo and Ommegang yeast . . . results are good enough I stick with blending of these four hops (Saaz, StG, Hall, EKG)

Negative, only used 644 once and overall results were not as expected. I brewed jbakajust1 Tropic Thunder recipe and did not get esters he got. Plus, I'm worried sick about the ferm temp that will be driving this . . . that's why I want a known quantity (flavor/aroma hops) in the game.

Negative, this poll is for Flavor and Aroma (late additions and dry hopping). The next poll will consider the long shots Amarillo/Nelson then we move on to the Bittering Poll. So it's now or never if you want some whirlpool/dh complexity. For @VikeMan , will you confirm this?

 

I voted for Hallertau because it is my current favorite Euro hop. None of these hop combos are objectionable. I think I would prefer a blend to all saaz, but nothing bad about all saaz, either. I'll try to check in tomorrow. If another hop is leading, I'll vote for it. But the next poll worres me:Nelson and Amarillo possibilities. I never used Nelson, but Amarillo, I fear, could obscure or clash with the yeast flavors.

 

OK, so given all of that, what is the "best" hop to combine with Saaz and why? I appreciate your experience here, but I am still unsure what StG/Fuggles adds to Saaz or why this combo would be better than just Saaz. But, I am willing to experiment, so you tell me what your #1 preference is and I will change my vote

FWIW, I used 644 as a primary strain twice. The first time was a tropical fruit bomb, an awesome beer. The second time was nothing special at all, not sure why, more experimentation needed.

In my world, flavor/aroma are the late additions and I tend to think of that as the last 20 minutes of the boil (How to Brew definitions I think). Have the definitions of late hops changed to something like 5 - 0 minutes in most peoples minds?

 

I have used saaZ and hallertauer together with the yeast strains we are using. They were great.

 

I picked StG based on my past results and other beers (non-saisons) that regularly use this combination (Duvel & Hoegaarden). Reviewing my notes I see where I've combined Hallertau a couple of times with Saaz and EKG once. For just about all my Belgians I will add one of these three hops late and whirlpool. From the BJCP guidelines: Hop bitterness and flavor may be more noticeable than in many other Belgian styles. A saison is sometimes dry-hopped. Noble hops, Styrian or East Kent Goldings are commonly used.

My technique on dh'ing saisons is to wait until a beer is finished and see what's needed (won't work here). If the nose is less than spectacular then dh with an ounce of StG, or EKG or Hall. This is mild by any stretch. Sometimes I will use a strong American hop like Citra or Mosiac but VikeMan says we need a Super Majority (?) for that . . . so not expecting Amarillo to make the cut. The first year DuPont dh'ed (Triskell), they couldn't keep it on the shelves.

The irony is the majority (now) want an additional hop . . . the only way to pull this off is to switcheroo tomorrow to the horse in the lead.

 

"Help me Obi Wan Kenobi*, you're my only hope"


*Little known fact: This is Šlovenian for "jump ship to Hallertau"