Averagely Perfect Saison - Poll #47 - Water Poll Part 1

Discussion in 'Homebrewing' started by VikeMan, Mar 29, 2015.

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Select an approximate Total Permanent Hardness (Ca plus Mg), expressed as CaCO3 equivalent

Poll closed Mar 31, 2015.
  1. Soft: approximately 50 ppm (as CaCO3)

    47.6%
  2. Moderately Hard: approximately 90 ppm (as CaCO3)

    47.6%
  3. Hard: approximately 150 ppm (as CaCO3)

    4.8%
  4. Very Hard: approximately 200 ppm (as CaCO3)

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
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  1. VikeMan

    VikeMan Grand Pooh-Bah (3,067) Jul 12, 2009 Pennsylvania
    Pooh-Bah

    Poll #46 determined that the fermentation will ramp up to the target temp over a period of 4-7 days.

    The next two polls will determine the recommended overall water profile. The first one (this poll) will determine the approximate Total Permanent Hardness (Ca plus Mg concentration) expressed as equivalent of CaCO3. After that's determined, the last poll will present several possible overall water profiles that fit the approximate Total Permanent Hardness selected.

    This poll is straight plurality.

    For those looking ahead, after the two water polls, I will publish the final recipes.

    This poll will be open for 48 hours.

    (For those who don't know what I'm talking about, see these threads for the first two beers we did (and the bazillion ensuing polls and the final recipes...
    http://beeradvocate.com/community/threads/the-averagely-perfect-american-ipa-project.59552/
    http://www.beeradvocate.com/community/threads/averagely-perfect-american-stout-poll-1-abv.131209/ )

    Issues with methodology? Take 'em to beermail please.

    The Averagely Perfect Saison so far...

    Batch Size: 5 Gallons
    ABV: 5.7%
    OG: 1.045
    FG: 1.002
    Mash Recommendation: Single Infusion @ 150F, 60 Minutes, no Mashout
    Assumed Mash Efficiency: 70%
    90 Minute Boil
    IBUs: 24
    Fermentation: Pitch at 68F, ramping up to 80F over 4-7 days

    Grain Bill:
    Belgian Pilsner Malt (68%)
    Flaked Wheat (17%)
    Vienna malt (15%)

    Yeasts:
    WLP565/Wyeast 3724 and WLP650, co-pitched [no starter for the Brett]

    Hops:
    60 Minutes - Saaz and Hallertau, approx. 15 IBUs, Split 50/50
    10 Minutes - 0.75 ounces Saaz , 0.75 ounces Hallertau
    Flameout/Whirlpool/Hopstand - 0.75 ounces Saaz, 0.75 ounces Hallertau
     
  2. Eriktheipaman

    Eriktheipaman Pooh-Bah (2,303) Sep 4, 2010 California
    Pooh-Bah

    I haven't been following these as much as I should but damn polling water profiles is intense!
     
    wspscott likes this.
  3. wspscott

    wspscott Pooh-Bah (1,958) May 25, 2006 Kentucky
    Pooh-Bah

    I'll vote for "no freaking idea" :slight_smile:

    Who wants to help me here?
     
  4. pweis909

    pweis909 Grand Pooh-Bah (3,250) Aug 13, 2005 Wisconsin
    Pooh-Bah

    I went with soft. This is approximately where brunwater had me for the last saison I brewed.
     
  5. lic217

    lic217 Pooh-Bah (2,090) Aug 10, 2010 Connecticut
    Pooh-Bah Trader

    I just brewed a saison. I went with a moderate water profile and did 2% acid malt. If no acid malt, which this recipe does not have, then I would think a soft profile would be best. Full disclaimer: I have only been messing with water chemistry for a few months. In the scheme of things, I don't know shit.
     
  6. VikeMan

    VikeMan Grand Pooh-Bah (3,067) Jul 12, 2009 Pennsylvania
    Pooh-Bah

    Just so everyone is baselined...even though the recipe doesn't call for acid malt, you could use it (or acid) to influence mash pH. But I don't plan on making that a poll or part of the recipe.
     
  7. Mike_Aguirre

    Mike_Aguirre Initiate (0) Jan 20, 2015 Mexico

    I agree. We only use harden water to balance acidity of malt, but if you don´t have that, you´ll end up with lot´s of minerals in smell and taste.
     
  8. VikeMan

    VikeMan Grand Pooh-Bah (3,067) Jul 12, 2009 Pennsylvania
    Pooh-Bah

    Someone asked me to show what the "as CaCO3" ppm hardness equivalents would look like in terms of ppm for Ca and for Mg, in case anyone was thinking that 50 ppm "as CaCO3" meant 50 ppm Ca, for example. (It doesn't.) So here it is (rounded to nearest ppm)...

    50 ppm as CaCO3 = 20 ppm Ca -or- 12 ppm Mg
    90 ppm as CaCO3 = 36 ppm Ca -or- 22 ppm Mg
    150 ppm as CaCO3 = 60 ppm Ca -or- 37 ppm Mg
    200 ppm as CaCO3 = 80 ppm Ca -or- 49 ppm Mg
     
    ChrisMyhre likes this.
  9. FATC1TY

    FATC1TY Pooh-Bah (2,564) Feb 12, 2012 Georgia
    Pooh-Bah

    I went with moderate.. I find it makes the past saisons a bit more crisp, clean and refreshing, although, soft water would work just as well.

    +1 to a bit more acidic mash, which I'll do anyways.
     
  10. AlCaponeJunior

    AlCaponeJunior Grand Pooh-Bah (3,452) May 21, 2010 Texas
    Society Pooh-Bah

    ya'll are friggin' DORKS you're still on this? :astonished:
     
    jbakajust1 likes this.
  11. machalel

    machalel Initiate (0) Jan 19, 2012 Australia

    Why does it go from Soft to Moderately Hard... Why no medium?

    I vote for Medium :stuck_out_tongue:
     
  12. wspscott

    wspscott Pooh-Bah (1,958) May 25, 2006 Kentucky
    Pooh-Bah

    You have something better for us to do with our time? :slight_smile:
     
    AlCaponeJunior likes this.
  13. ChrisMyhre

    ChrisMyhre Initiate (0) Sep 15, 2013 Massachusetts

    I like pretty soft water for a standard saison, I do bump things up for a dry hopped version, but haven't tried something closer to a pale ale profile for a more traditional saison. @FATC1TY do you find that to be true for other lawnmower/ refreshing beers as well? What does your water profile look like for your berliner?
     
  14. VikeMan

    VikeMan Grand Pooh-Bah (3,067) Jul 12, 2009 Pennsylvania
    Pooh-Bah

    Okay. Soft and Moderately Hard tied. Rather than have a run-off, I'm going to break the tie by assigning the one vote for Hard to Moderately Hard, which is closer to it than Soft. So Moderately Hard it is.
     
  15. scurvy311

    scurvy311 Savant (1,135) Dec 3, 2005 Louisiana

    Congratulations on posting a short concise post. :wink:
     
  16. Theheroguy

    Theheroguy Initiate (0) Jun 29, 2012 Maryland

    well F***
     
  17. primrose54

    primrose54 Initiate (0) Apr 7, 2009 Ohio

    I'm going to brew soon. I was wondering what fruit do you think would work well with beer?
     
  18. AlCaponeJunior

    AlCaponeJunior Grand Pooh-Bah (3,452) May 21, 2010 Texas
    Society Pooh-Bah

    I think it's the first time that's ever happened :rolling_eyes:
     
    scurvy311 likes this.
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