Contract Brewers and Top Beers by State

Discussion in 'Beer Talk' started by DannyS, Jun 16, 2015.

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  1. DannyS

    DannyS Initiate (0) Sep 20, 2007 New York

    So, I was about to post in this topic...

    http://www.beeradvocate.com/community/threads/five-best-breweries-in-your-region.303160/

    ...When I saw that Evil Twin is considered one of the top breweries in New York.

    I don't know about other NYers, but I have a problem with Evil Twin being considered a New York brewery, and by proxy other purely contract brewers claiming to be from a specific location when they have no discrete, permanent property in which they operate. Anyone else have an opinion on this one? Personally, I'm not against contract brewing. It's a great way for smaller operations to increase output on a budget. But it does seem pretty unfair to me that Evil Twin has SEVENTEEN beers on BA's NY top 100 when ET could pretty easily change contracts and move elsewhere. I give Lawson's and SoS a pass because Lawson's maintains actual brewing operations in VT, but (correct me if I'm wrong here) Evil Twin is purely a nomad brewing operation with national distribution, and to say they're a New York brewery competing with other New York breweries doesn't totally jive with me.

    Considering my job, I might be biased, but does anyone else have an opinion on this? Is there something to be said about a brewery with a local B&M presence vs. companies that only exist on paper? Am I being a stuffy beer business luddite? Do we need a Top 100 contract brewery beers list? What is the airspeed velocity of an unladen swallow??

    P.S. - I'm not bashing ET's quality. The beers I've had from them have never been bad. This is purely a question of identity and location.
     
    #1 DannyS, Jun 16, 2015
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  2. rozzom

    rozzom Pooh-Bah (2,620) Jan 22, 2011 New York
    Pooh-Bah Trader

    Yeah I'm with you re: Evil Twin. But then that opens the door for grayer area situations. I.e. I consider Sixpoint and Grimm to very much be NY breweries, but I know the usual lot will pipe up in disagreement.
     
    #2 rozzom, Jun 16, 2015
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  3. DannyS

    DannyS Initiate (0) Sep 20, 2007 New York

    I absolutely accept Sixpoint as a genuine NY brewer; it's where they started and they still have brewing operations in Brooklyn. Grimm's a bit more on the fence, but I'd probably give them a pass considering they started out in the city proper. Evil Twin, IIRC, is originally from Denmark.
     
    #3 DannyS, Jun 16, 2015
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  4. rozzom

    rozzom Pooh-Bah (2,620) Jan 22, 2011 New York
    Pooh-Bah Trader

    I completely agree - just saying there will be others who won't
     
    #4 rozzom, Jun 16, 2015
  5. Phigg1102

    Phigg1102 Initiate (0) Sep 29, 2013 New York

    I agree with all of this. I love ET. Their beers are great, but it seems like they have been granted NY residency simply because of Torst being in Williamsburg :confused:. Should Mikkeller be considered a California brewery now?
     
    #5 Phigg1102, Jun 16, 2015
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  6. DannyS

    DannyS Initiate (0) Sep 20, 2007 New York

    Righto; same problem with Mikkeller in my opinion. Great beer; shouldn't be considered a domestic company. I'm suddenly getting flashbacks of Hillary as senator here years ago...and now I realize I should have called this topic "Carpetbagger breweries".
     
    #6 DannyS, Jun 16, 2015
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  7. ConradKenney

    ConradKenney Initiate (0) Nov 14, 2013 Maryland

    I've often wondered how NY'ers thought about the Evil Twin thing. Stillwater is labeled on this site as a Maryland brewery. I sometimes feel conflicted about that, as most (all?) Stillwater beers are brewed at other breweries outside of MD. However, this is his base of operations, and Of Love & Regret is located in Baltimore, so I often think of Stillwater as being a MD brewery. A bit torn on the thought process, but who really cares. Stillwater, Mikkeller, and Evil Twin all make great beer.
     
    #7 ConradKenney, Jun 16, 2015
  8. drtth

    drtth Initiate (0) Nov 25, 2007 Pennsylvania
    In Memoriam

    Well so here's a problem.

    If their legal place of business is in NY State,

    http://thelawdictionary.org/place-of-business/

    where would you have them listed that wouldn't be equally problemmatic.

    Sort of like a friend of mine who lives in New Jersey and has his legal residence there but works in NYC. Isn't he a Jersey resident rather than a NY resident?
     
    #8 drtth, Jun 16, 2015
    Last edited: Jun 16, 2015
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  9. DannyS

    DannyS Initiate (0) Sep 20, 2007 New York

    That's a very good point that brings up a "letter vs. spirit of law" sort of question. It might be a case where it's technically correct, but that doesn't mean I have to like the fact that Evil Twin dominates the NY top 100 on this site. Though I imagine BA isn't under any legal obligation to designate ET as a NY brewer. Were it my decision, I probably would make new top 100 lists for nomad brewers' beers by country.
     
    #9 DannyS, Jun 16, 2015
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  10. herrburgess

    herrburgess Grand Pooh-Bah (3,077) Nov 4, 2009 South Carolina
    Pooh-Bah

    It's not a competition.
     
    #10 herrburgess, Jun 16, 2015
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  11. PatrickCT

    PatrickCT Grand Pooh-Bah (3,776) Feb 18, 2015 Connecticut

    I am with you on ET. I looked at the list of best beers in NY last month and noticed the same thing. And Evil Twin and Lawson's SOS are both brewed at Two Roads in CT. But like you mentioned, at least Lawson's has a brewery.
     
    #11 PatrickCT, Jun 16, 2015
  12. corew

    corew Crusader (440) Jun 10, 2015 Pennsylvania

    Is Evil Genius in the same light? I don't know much about the subject, but I thought I read the same thing and they are brewing out of Connecticut? Owners went to Villanova and are looking to move back into PA I believe..so what then?
     
    #12 corew, Jun 16, 2015
  13. dennis3951

    dennis3951 Initiate (0) Mar 6, 2008 New Jersey

    Does any Evil Twin beer get brewed in NY?
     
    #13 dennis3951, Jun 16, 2015
  14. drtth

    drtth Initiate (0) Nov 25, 2007 Pennsylvania
    In Memoriam

    Don't worry, I wasn't suggesting you needed to like it... :slight_smile:

    But if the brewery adheres to NY State law, is registered as doing business in NY, pays taxes in NY, etc. and has to be listed somewhere, its a lot less work to just list it where it is registered. For example, suppose the brewer brews beers in more than one country and changes countries a lot over time.
     
    #14 drtth, Jun 16, 2015
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  15. gibgink

    gibgink Pooh-Bah (1,581) Oct 27, 2014 Missouri
    Pooh-Bah Trader

     
    #15 gibgink, Jun 16, 2015
  16. DannyS

    DannyS Initiate (0) Sep 20, 2007 New York

    #16 DannyS, Jun 16, 2015
  17. zid

    zid Grand Pooh-Bah (3,132) Feb 15, 2010 New York
    BA4LYFE Society Pooh-Bah Trader

    Most people who really care about "best in state" stuff just bury their heads in the sand regarding this. If anything, it highlights the silliness of our obsession with putting things into boxes that just don't fit. Why do we have this need?
     
    #17 zid, Jun 16, 2015
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  18. drtth

    drtth Initiate (0) Nov 25, 2007 Pennsylvania
    In Memoriam

    My current understanding is that Evil Genius is in PA (West Grove in SE PA, IIRC) but all their brewing is in CT. And I heard, as you seem to have, that they plan on getting a brewery set up here. Nothing yet about when, but...
     
    #18 drtth, Jun 16, 2015
  19. drtth

    drtth Initiate (0) Nov 25, 2007 Pennsylvania
    In Memoriam

    Why? Simplicity. Makes things easier to think about. Heads hurt less, and that sort of stuff.... :-)
     
    #19 drtth, Jun 16, 2015
  20. Ranbot

    Ranbot Pooh-Bah (2,463) Nov 27, 2006 Pennsylvania
    Pooh-Bah

    As @drtth says, there's no good place to list them without creating more problems. Even nomad brewers are registered businesses in a state and are required to follow that state's business requirements, so putting them in a separate category might not be that different from a brewer that contracts their beer production. And @herrburgess makes a very good point to....
     
    #20 Ranbot, Jun 16, 2015
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