Northeast Pales/IPA/DIPA

It's what I do And yes it seems obvious, but it's something that I haven't notice any mention of in this thread.

 

Do you mean they avoid cold crashing altogether? JC gave some perspective on his (or at least a proposed) process in another thread. The conditioning temps he references don't seem super abnormal.

 

@hoptualBrew I let the beers finish out and drop the bulk of the yeast (2 weeks from pitch to harvest) at which point I rack the beer off to the keg and dryhop in there. I add sterile water to the fermetor, swirl, and then move it all back to the sterile container (1/2 gallon mason jar). I let it drop out to a cake for a couple weeks and I then make a small starter with a portion of it to get it awake again. But I am like Stone, I use my IPA cake for my repitching. It is healthy and viable and ferments new beers well. My 7th generation pitch into a Porter tastes great.

 

You got me in suspense, gimme some data man!!!!!
Also, anyone see what I did there....?

 

All I did to change my beers toward hazy was increase my conditioning temperature incrementally. An example would be conditioning at 35F for an IPA. The next time I brewed that IPA I would try conditioning it at 38F. The next time, 41F. I did this until I reached the desired level of haze in the final product. The serving temperature would also come into play, especially for home brewers who likely have their beer on tap for an extended period of time.

Short answer: Still cold crash, but try out different temps strategically
Edit: Additionally, it the necessary temperature is strain dependent

 

Interesting, man -- thanks for sharing your experience/experimentation. It seems like what you're doing, though, is a little different from that quote from JC, which talks about crashing down to a fairly cold temp to get the yeast/trub out. Which still leaves the question -- what exactly is the haze. Is it straight up hop polyphenols from heavy dry hopping levels? Have the polyphenols bonded to the yeast in such a way that the haze is amplified, even with cold crashing to drop most of the yeast out of suspension? So many questions!

 

Sorry I should have clarified better. I am dry hopping my second dose in the keg and then will do a jump to the serving keg in a couple of days.

One thing of note I'm interested to check out is that I put my first dose of dry hops in both on day 4. However, the 1318 was at 1.028 (from 1.070) and the Nottingham was already down to 1.013. So I'm wondering if the gravity levels will play a role in the biotransformations everyone is talking about and if I will be able to tell at all. However, if there is a difference I probably still would not be able to rightly attribute it to the biotransformations only. I'm sure the yeast strains are going to play a role in the hop character. With so many moving parts how dare anyone say this hobby is more science than art.

 

I've never dry hopped 5 gallon batches of beer with more than 7 or 8 oz. That is a pretty heavy dry hop IMO. A beer dry hopped with 6 or 7 oz using London 3 yeast simply will never clear. Not even close.
6 or 7 oz dry hop with Chico, WL 644, us05 etc will definitely clear. Not pilsner clarity but commercial ipa clarity.

IMO these hazy beers are all yeast derived haziness. Sure the high hopping rates are helping, but I truly believe it's all yeast related. Now there has to be other strains other than 1318 that throws a perma haze in a hoppy wort.

A friend of mine does use WL 007 a lot in hoppy beers and they also tend to be hazy for a while longer than Chico and the like but I've never seen a beer throw a haze like 1318.

I'm interested to hear more on the science behind the "hoppy haze positive" strains and what exactly is happening.

I'm certainly not smart enough to figure it out.

 

Have you ever had Trillium hoppy beers? Those beers are murky and they do not brew with 1318.

In a clone beer recipe from @telejunkie he suggests WLP007/WY1098 to brew a Trillium beer.

Cheers!

 

I have not had the honor to try a trillium beer yet infortunately. I stalk pictures of there beers on social media and they are all beautifully hazy and some murky.
I'll have to try that strain out in some intensely hoppy wort to see if it throws a hop perma haze that is all the craZe.

Pun definitely intended.

 

not really AS murky but I didn't go nearly as high on the dryhop as some suggested

 

@WillQC4Beer what yeast??

 

That was achieved with WY1764 Pac-Man.

 

Didn't look like a 1318 beer. Just wondering. Still looks delicious tho.

 

More data (perhaps) on 1318.

I just dry hopped my NE IPA with 6 oz of pellet hops, into the keg at day 24 after brewing. Temperature for initial fermentation was 65 F, followed by a ramp to 71 F, and then the last 5 days it has been at 68 F. This beer is super cloudy -- murky even, some might say. To me, this indicates 1318 might be a bit different than some other English strains, which I would have expected to significantly floc out by now (even at these relatively high temperatures) On the other hand, this grist for this beer was 15% Quick Oats; I would expect some impact on clarity from this grain. Obviously, so far no effect from the hops.

Cheers!

 

@utahbeerdude yea I've noticed haziness pretty much from day 1 with 1318 and hoppy wort. Others haven't noticed a haze until the dry hop but that definitely hasn't been my experience. Even while co pitching with 644 I've got one hell of a hazy hoppy beer on my hands.

 

I am of the belief this can be achieved using other yeast, i feel it is largely process dependent more than the yeast specifically. I am going to do this again using this yeast again and increasing the whirlpool and the dry hop and i bet i can get it to come in looking like Headroom by Trillium which looks like this:

(not my image just googled for a pic - i want to try it though)

 

The whole reason this thread exists is science. If it wasn't, we'd just say "Well, that guy pulls it off, good for him." We're trying to figure out how they do it.

 

Dude I wasn't completely serious. Just lightening it up a little. I'm an engineer by trade. I believe in the science but I also appreciate the art.

 

Sorry, I work in cheese. I deal with a bunch of artsy folks who don't appreciate absolutes day in, day out. (Dropped out of college studying engineering to work in food.) It gets to you after a bit.