Backwoods Bastard 2015

Why does Founders even care about releasing it on a certain day? Its not like people make a big deal about this release.

 

Yeah, there's only 3 pages of chatter about it so far....and Founders will sell pallets of it the day it hits the brewery.

 

Exactly, if this was KBS or BCBS (the only other beers I can think of where the brewer insists on a specific day distribution release), there would be 10+ pages plus a thread in every regional sub-forum. I'm not saying this beer isn't good or popular, it is both, but I don't see the point in or the demand to warrant having a national day-of release.

 

I don't think Specs in Houston is carrying it yet, but they show online the pricing is $13 a 4 pack

 

It's in ny.

 

Picked up a 4-pack in Rochester, NY yesterday. They also had some cellared singles of the 2014 batch for sale. 1 bottle limit though. I'm looking forward to a side by side.

 

Went to Decicco's in Brewster, NY today with intentions to pick up Founders Harvest (it was already gone) and right next to it were labels for Backwoods Bastard (which were also gone). HOWEVER I did find a few bottles of Backwoods 2015 in their singles section so I picked two up.

 

I've said it before and I'll say it again, Founders doesn't care about Grand Rapids, or Michigan for that matter, anymore. This did get released, 2015 Vintage, outside of Michigan already. I'd bet anything the Michigan distributors have it in their warehouses, but will sit on it until November. They released Spectra Trifecta (Ginger Kolsch) for the 2015 Grand Rapids Art Prize Beer and the day it hit stores, the "Bottled On" date on the cases was already a month old. I haven't seen a case of Founders anything come into my store that wasn't already a month or two old, and the store is about 15 minutes from Founders and even closer to the distributor. They just don't care. I wish Backwoods wasn't one of my favorite beers, otherwise I'd just skip buying it all together.

 

It's not really about a release day, more so about sticking to the master calendar they are revolving their business model around, and not over saturating the market to the point where they are competing with themselves and cannibalising their own customer base.

Dark Penance, Breakfast Stout, and Harvest Ale all just dropped in October. That combined with their flagship line is a lot of options. So they try to spread it around a little bit. Harvest gets October and BB gets November.

 

Huh? So is it Founders that "doesn't care about Michigan"? Because if the beer is with Michigan distributors (not saying it isn't) then aren't they the ones holding it back? Once Founders sells to a distributor, their control of when the beer goes out is extremely limited. The only power they really have is to pull allocations.

Plus, Founders has Backwoods Bastard slated as a November release on their master calendar. If Michigan distributors are sitting on it (out of respect for Founders wishes to release it in November), how does that translate to "they don't care about Michigan?" How do the decisions of distributors in other markets reflect in any way on how Founders feels about Michigan?

You bring up the ginger kolsch, which I would argue didn't really need to be consumed weeks-old fresh; I had a bottle last week and it tasted fantastic. I would counterpoint with the fact that Harvest Ale (a beer for which freshness is extremely important) was in stores in Ann Arbor a mere eight days after bottling.

 

That makes sense, thanks!

 

Should have ended with the fact that is just my own opinion, but based on logic and good business practices, this is my guess

 

Well that's just ridiculous and I'm local too. Breakfast Stout, Harvest, Redankulous - I bought within two weeks of bottling. You're Art Prize example - I'm sure they threw a lot of money at this and on top of that brewed a beer primarily for the event which guess what, generates a ton of exposure and dollars for Grand Rapids. Perhaps they wanted to actually release the beer to coincide with the timing of the event? What's your store?

 

For what it's worth, the Backwoods Bastard bottles I picked up earlier today were bottled in late September.

 

It's not just MI...most of the country hasn't "violated" the late Oct/early Nov release date. Just some distributors scattered around the East coast. Certainly not found in SE PA yet.

 

I pretty much agree, but with one caveat: this year's Harvest Ale release hitting shelves so quickly was great, but it was also not typical. Two years ago it took over a month to get to SE Mich (I think Florida beat us by 3 weeks), and last year was somewhere in between these two extremes.

 

Stopped in Marshall tonight looking for a 4-pack. Nothing, but did come across Harvest Ale and Mosaic Promise. The Mosaic was just bottled on the 12th. Pretty fast getting that out to retail. We also opened one of our 2014 Backwoods Bastard bottles. Taste was amazing, the bourbon hasn't faded.

 

I'm saying,
Business:
-Allocations are a given; but Founders controls them 100%. You could be the highest selling account for Founders brand on the planet and they could have a grudge against a store and demand that said store never see's allocations for any specialty release again or will limit the amount of cases a store will see based on their own whim. Distributor must oblige or Founders threatens to move to a new company.

-Having worked on the inside I know firsthand that Founders has 99.99999% say and sway with their distributor in West Michigan. They also control the exact day a beer can be released; making sure they've sucked up all the money themselves at the brewery by throwing release parties first. That part doesn't bother me; they are a business, it's their job to make beer and make money. But only so many people fit in that building, it's not a huge place (for now), for how popular they are, effectively alienating a lot of customers in their own city of Grand Rapids who cannot get in, or for whatever reason otherwise can't get there to enjoy said beer. Then Founders restricts the date of sale to be days, weeks, months after it's actually been bottled.

-Founders bullies the distributors to buy the products; it's insane how much control they have over it because they know they can threaten to leave. This makes the distributor warehouse case after case of let's say Centennial IPA, of which I have not gotten less than a month old case of at my store in almost a year and a half, because whatever Founders makes, the company is forced to buy, then obviously selling the older product to us to turn some profit for themselves. Founders control the whole thing, prices, nonsense allocations, release date always subject to change at even a days notice.

-They send brewery reps and make distribution reps go out to rearrange and/or take other product out of coolers and shelves to put their own in, without asking. They put up posters, put stickers on cooler doors without asking...Have seen it happen on countless occasions.

-More cases of specialty product, specifically KBS '14, '15 were shipped out of state than were left in the state for every bar, bottle shop, grocery store, costco and sams in Michigan, forcing the consumer to go hunting to actually get a full 4 pack of beer, because of limited availability and bottle limits at shops. See side note as it applies here.

Side note: Yes, Costco's beer buyers around here are smart. Last year one store received 19 cases of Bourbon County and sold them at cost no limit. My store; one that had employees personally recommending the brand, giving the brand prime space in a small shop, forced by ABInB through distributors to over order GI products under false pretense of allocation, was given one 24pk 12oz case. My shop wasn't the only one, many others were the same or didn't get any at all.

Personal:
-Their prices are outrageous. Just straight up. I'll pay $20 for KBS, it's always been that price, but Backwoods used to be a $12 4pk, Backwoods 2014 was closer to $20, both at brewery and retail. ReDank was $11.99/12.99 at the low end a bottle outside the brewery at your typical bottle shop, it's the same beer as Dark Horse Brewing's "Smells Like A Safety Meeting", which was $12.99 a six pack.

-They changed their house yeast and since that change, nothing has tasted the same. But they don't care, because they have their name now and that garbage they call All Day IPA, which is just the new PBR for craft beer drinkers.

-I don't think they are doing much of anything to curb drunk driving in the city from the brewery. Their parking lots are ALWAYS full and I see cabs, but not nearly enough for the amount of people there drinking, as pretty much two of their beers, any of them, puts you over the legal B.A.C. limit in MI. I see people leaving and driving away that have been sitting near me drinking for two hours. Like very often. (Nip the "well be the good guy and tell someone they're too drunk to drive" BS in the bud, I'm not anyone's keeper, that's what the brewery and police are for)

-I expect a local brewery who almost got shut down had it not been for the people who loved their beer when Grand Rapids was small, to deliver fresh product to the market that made them. Not a month later, tomorrow (or whenever the trucks come), just give me something that's not a month old. They have so much control, you can't tell me that they can't get fresh product out to their home market when I can get Stone Enjoy By 10.31 five days after it was bottled (it was, I checked when we got it, amazing huh?) That's across the country in 5 days and you're telling me that the BA's of not only Grand Rapids, but the BA's of Michigan should resort to month old beer when we live here?

But they don't care. One of the owners just built a multi-million dollar home in the richest park of Grand Rapids; tore out a whole corner of nice forest to build it. As long as the money is flowing they don't care. That's my point.

My store is within a distance of which I can drive my car to the brewery, get a 6er of fresh Centennial and be back to work and sell it in about 30 minutes round trip
To answer and ask you both since Spectra Trifecta was mentioned:
I was able to try Spectra Trifecta a day after it was bottled. Freshness is key to ANY produce. Beer is produce! Water, malt, hops, yeast and other flavor adding herbs and spices and the such. Would you eat a month old head of lettuce over a fresh one? I get that the flavors are still there, but you never got to try it fresh. They're so muted in comparison it's redankulous.

TLDR: My gripe: To brew it and then make the distro wait on it, any of it, ruins what used to be weekly fresh beer, makes me say Founders doesn't care about Grand Rapids or michigan anymore. Now I can just copy and paste this rant every time I'm asked.

at the end of the day, it's all just beer. I vote with my money and don't buy founders products, except for Backwoods. There's really nothing out there like it. Begrudgingly of course.

 

You sir....COMPLETELY FUCKING NAILED IT!!!! For the past few years, Founders has left a sour taste in my mouth when it comes to pricing, formats, freshness, and most importantly their loyalty to Michigan. Thank you for that glorious rant...1000 likes from me

 

You guys don't have to buy their stuff. You're pissing and moaning about price, distribution, yeast changes, etc. There are options. I'm not clear as to why you've picked this forum to bitch, especially since you'll be lined up to buy BB, and KBS. I can only imagine how you would handle another CBS release. Bottle(s) in hand and the complaining stops. Go after Bells, 3F's, Dark Horse whoever. You think Founders is unique to this? You mean to tell me if you were Engbers or Stevens you would do things different? Go drink a beer and STFU.