Do cloudy/hoppy/turbid IPAs scale up?

And they are still delicious, IMO...

 

I noticed that too, which is why the difference is all the more puzzling. Isn't it possible that those labels were made in IA and shipped down to FL and slapped on the Bombers. The difference with the 12 oz bottles and their labels is that 12oz bottles have never been done in IA (save for KBBS and previous MD releases), so those were always a FL thing.

I'm not trying to put on my tin foil hat here, just trying to come up with a reason for the difference. I'm not sure I'm buying the time argument 100% either. I feel I've had bombers of Light Speed & Pompeii as old, if not older, brewed in IA that were better and just different than the stuff I'm seeing in shops locally now.

 

My theory is the amount of hops needed for these super juicy, cloudy beers would be astronomical if brewed on a large scale, and brewers only have so much to use considering hop contracts and supply constraints. I'm guessing in many cases the recipes are tweaked to attempt to extract more from less hops.

Disclaimer: all just wild speculation based on no real facts on my part.

 

You're taking my post very literally.

I meant all beer, not just the two mentioned.

 

Just my opinion, but I felt like he was just mocking the exact type of conversations that this thread is based on

 

As regards Green Flash brewed Alpine beer vs. Alpine brewed Alpine beer I recently posted a similar sentiment:

“The other question it begs is that after a 2 year relationship between Green Flash and Alpine why can't Green Flash consistently replicate Alpine beer?”

http://www.beeradvocate.com/communi...ing-alpine-bottles.340039/page-6#post-4165494

Cheers!

 

I think bombers may be a little bit older since a distribution deal was inked. Minimum time from bottling to shelf is now 9-10 days. Is the distributer cold storing them, 10 days does not seem like much but when TG was self distributing 1-3 days from bottling was common. So far zero bombers have come from Brew Hub in Florida....

 

I say no for two reasons:

1) the New England style IPA focuses on late hop additions and a ton of dry hops. In my personal experience those two hopping techniques fall off faster.

2) on a podcast with Mitch Steele he mentions how the small breweries add a ton of dry hops which adsorb A lot of beer and for breweries like stone, production brewery, they can afford to lose that much beer.

The biggest difference between alpine's Nelson and GF's Nelson is the aroma. From what I know Alpine bombs that beer with dry hops. On a large scale like GF that would be too damn expensive.

 

That might make some sense. Thanks for the clarification. I'll try a few more bombers from up here, and a buddy is going down to Decorah and will get some bombers. I'll compare the two.

 

JC posts in the homebrewing forum and states he uses a highly flocculate yeast. They get their beers out fast and they don't sit so they never have time to clear. I brewed a beer based on a trillium recipe and it was cloudy/hazy until the final 1/4 of the 5 gallon keg. I used a similar yeast that trillium uses, which is supposed to be different from treehouse.

 

There must be an advantage to fining beers so that they're crystal clear. I've definitely noticed that not many (or any at all) cloudy IPAs get distributed widely. Maybe breweries think most people enjoy a clear beer to look at rather than cloudy? I've noticed though that Nelson has gone from super cloudy to super clear to kinda cloudy to really cloudy. Someone who works at GF told me they were experimenting with different percentages of fining, and that a completely clear version made its way out which could've been a mistake.

 

I don't know. I've been drinking PseudoSue since it was in kegs and have bought bottles from nearly every delivery over the past 3-4 years (i.e. 1 bomber to try each batch, which for a while was once every few months). There was always batch variation and that has been the same with the 12 oz. bottles, with some batches being pretty disappointing and at least 23 batches being memorable and really tasty. I would imagine that there is an x-factor that is lost in scaling up because the hops aren't directly multiplied to match the water volume etc. so you can actually use fewer to make the beer, but it does seem that it could be dialed in.

Recent bottles of Nelson were pretty great and kind of hazy FWIW!

 

Otter Creek Backseat Berner is a very cloudy turbid IPA and I think it is pretty widely distributed.

 

There are a lot of different variable. Let's just say I brew a 5 gallon batch of homebrew IPA and want to brew a 20 gallon batch. Just increasing the malts and hops by 4 doesn't equal the same product. The beer is going to react differently. The volume of liquid changes a lot of how the beer will turn out. Also, the equipment is different on a large scale and the beer will react different.

My understanding of what Mitch said is they don't dry hop at the same volume that smaller breweries do. 1 reason is dry hops absorb more liquid. I don't think stone or other large brewery are using the same amount of hops whether it's in the boil, whirlpool or dry hop. I think of Green IPA from Treehouse. It was named green because they used so many damn hops the wort was green. I can't imagine a large brewery being able to do that. My homebrew IPAs usually have more hops during dry hopping than in the boil. I don't know the science behind it but I do believe 5 ounces of dry hops would absorb more liquid than 5 ounces of hops in the boil.

Most small breweries sell most of their beer on draft or bombers at a higher cost than larger breweries. Thus, helping them pay for the higher brewing costs.

Another podcast with CellarMaker, the brewer said they couldn't make the same beer if they didn't sell over the bar and bottled it instead. He said the only way they could afford brewing these heavy hopped beers is by over the bar. Said he couldn't make as good of beer if it was a production brewery. I put CellarMaker in the same category as highly acclaimed New England breweries in regards to dank and juicy iPad.

 

You would think that it's just a matter of doubling, tripeling the ingredients as well but it's not.

I am doing fort point this weekend as the recipe was published in BYO. I've brewed Pier and congress street, but didn't have an exact recipe. Pier came out almost identical. Congress street not so much but it was still tasty!

There is a great ongoing thread in the homebrewing forum about brewing this style ipa. It's worth a scan and the fort point recipe is listed.

 

I agree. GF was able to purchase a centrifuge which really helped them dial it in. The issue they might come across now is on being able to ship and still have the product have the same quality after transit.

Leaving any solids (yeast, proteins, hop particles) in suspension with out being filtered out creates a more unstable beer.

 

This is pretty long, but will answer every question written above.

Edit: I can't remember if posting videos like this is kosher on here or not, but it really pertains to the topic