History of the American IPA?

I agree with you, but I think you're misunderstanding me. Today's benchmark and highest rated double IPAs are nothing like "old school" IPAs. IPAs like Celebration Ale have characteristics that are closer to a British IPA than today's double IPAs. Celebration Ale is more balanced, with a noticeable caramel malt backbone, and a prominent bitterness. Also, a lower abv. Heck, one of the old school IPAs mentioned in this thread, Harpoon IPA, is now ACTUALLY labeled an English IPA on this website.

There are absolutely subtle nuances between an American and English IPA, I'm not suggesting they're the same. But I still feel an English IPA and an "old school" IPA like Harpoon or Celebration have more in common than something like this...

 

Whomever listed Harpoon as an English IPA just blew it, that's all. American hops =American IPA, it's that simple.

 

What happens if you use all kinds of nationalities of hops in an IPA like Sam Adams Latitude?

 

True IF hops were the only ingredient in beer.

A UK brewery -

...using buttery Maris Otter malt
...an estery, low-attenuating British Ale yeast
...putting that beer unfiltered into casks
...BUT using Cascade or Citra

- is making a British IPA with American hops. Here's a perfect example.

 

Yeah, but which version of 12 Horse Ale? I could see the post-Repeal-era 12 Horse being similar - in the '30s, Genesee brewed a number of ales besides 12 Horse Ale - which they then described as a "dry-hopped, stock ale" - including a 9 Horse Ale, Old Stratford Ale, Dickens Ale, Sparking Ale, Old Stock Ale and Light Ale. They hired a UK brewer, imported British malt, hops and yeast and even had a Burton Union system of 5 barrel casks previously used in a Burton UK brewery. By the late 30s, they had their own malt house on Lake Ontario 40 miles east of Rochester which was "...the only brewery-owned malt house in the East..." (at that time) where they were "...using the old-time floor system, costliest but best method known.". (They dropped floor-malting in the '40s and closed the malthouse by the 1980s, IIRC).

By the time I first had it, mid-1970s*, it was no doubt much dumbed down - not very hoppy at all, but still the color of beers like Rainier Ale or Ballantine IPA - so more deep amber than golden/yellow. I used to joke it was sort of a "Bass Ale Light" (then, of course, also a much different beer than today's).

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Sometime in the late 1970s-early 1980s, the beer underwent a total repackaging [above] and, sadly, the formula was changed to a Canadian-type "golden ale" (back when Molson's Golden was still marketed as an "ale"). A 1985 ALL ABOUT BEER review, for instance, called it "pale gold" and noted the similarity to Molson and Labatt ales. I still remember the disappointment after finding it again when I visited upstate NYS, opening the bottle and, first, seeing the new color as I poured it ("WTF ?") and then tasting the beer.

* (At the time, I had NY State retail license and ordered it by the case for my own consumption. At first, my Genny salesman was reluctant to sell it to me as an off-premise licensee, since it was then primarily an on-premise package - it came only in refillable "deposit" bottles, packaged in Genesee Beer case "shells". I think closer to Rochester it was available in throw-away bottles six-packs, and draught).

 

I had no familiarity with the Genesee beer, so I didn't even think to ask! I'm hoping Neil meant the older version, but I don't know.

 

One of the most obvious clues that the most recent "golden ale" version of 12 Horse Ale from a few years back is not the post-Repeal>1950s version are the brewer's own stats:

It is pretty much an open secret that their "Cream Ale" which dates back to 1960 was originally a blend of their lager beer and their 12 Horse Ale. So, how does one blend a 4.5% beer with a 5.1% and get a 5.2% beer? (High gravity brewing?)

 

Do you know how many pre-craft breweries are still kicking nationwide?

 

"Breweries" or "Brewing companies"? Well, for the latter there's:

1. Anchor
2. Anheuser-Busch (div. of ABI)
   
3. City (brewing in Heileman, Schlitz/Stroh and Latrobe breweries but no real business connection to them)
4. Cold Spring
5. Coors (div. of MolsonCoors - and soon to be full owner of Miller & Leinenkugel?)
   
6. Matt (West End)
7. Minhas (Huber)
8. Genesee
9. Schell
10. Spoetzl
11. Stevens Point
12. Straub
13. The Lion
14. Yuengling (also brews in a Tampa, FL brewery prev. owned by Schlitz, Stroh and Pabst).

And several "beer companies" that are not "breweries" - Pabst (a direct descendant of the original but having gone through several owners in the last 40 years or so) and outfits like Narragansett - a new company which bought an old label. Many others of that latter type around, but most are merely sharing a name with a long gone brewing company and not much else.

And Boston Beer Co. operates two "pre-craft" era breweries, in Cincinnati (ex-Schoenling, Hudepohl-Schoenling) and outside Allentown, PA (ex-Schaefer, Stroh, Pabst, Diageo).

After a few edits --- I think that's it.

 

@jesskidden, I would gladly sit around a bar and keep feeding you beer just to listen to you dump all the beer knowledge in your head. I bet you are the kind of guy that goes to a party and a crowd just forms around him. Thanks for contributions

 

Awesome. Thank you. I was hoping you'd make exactly the distinction that you did. Did you mean "former" in the first line?

 

I get that. But discussing the history of American IPA, it's going to be American if made here by Americans.

 

No...I listed by number the existing US "brewing companies" that pre-date the craft era or could claim a heritage that dates back to that period(even though a few, like City, are very dubious), and then added info on some still operating breweries, now being run or owned by other companies.

So, while Anheuser-Busch is a "brewing company" they operate 12 US AB "breweries" (well, not counting their recent purchases of "craft" breweries and some of their newer breweries were built after the craft-era started.....Yeah, it's complicated).

 

JK,

Shouldn't Frankenmuth Brewing (established 1862) be included on that list?

Also, what about Choc Beer Company (Krebs). I have seen it listed as being established in 1919.

Cheers!

 

Really. All those small breweries a century or two ago creating IPA without the help of modern technology but with immense skill don't count as craft? Those guys and the breweries displayed a staggering degree of craft.

I found this little gem written by Kristen England of the BJCP ".......exactly like the very first DIPA ever made.A crap ton of hops , good amount of alcohol , totally focuses on the hops."

This was not describing some modern brew but a resurrection of a Scotch Ale from 1868. Names change , what's in the glass is what matters.

 

Ah, I misread that initially. My head wasn't in the right gear. Thanks.

 

Couldn't agree more.

But I wouldn't go that far. There's still an obvious family resemblance.

 

I recently found this table in an edition of American brewer's review from 1908 which has a table of beer analyses of a few American IPAs, among which one from C.H. Evans & Son, Hudson New York, which I thought I'd post a link to.