German craft beer

See, I disagree with that. I think the Germans will let trends run their course elsewhere while they observe (conservatively) what they sense is the essence of the movement (i.e. "new" hops and various flavorings) and will then reproduce those formulas in x different (but highly similar) variations...ad nauseum.

 

But how is the US Pilsner trend coming......?
is it like strong red wine and parker an idea which is brought forward by critics and the media? I honestly have no clue.

The thing is, germany already has, and will still have in 10+ yeats, excellent, popular subtle beers..........just not in a "progressive, hip"marketing coat...

 

As best that I can see the emergence of more and more Pilsners being brewed by US craft breweries is a movement created by the breweries. I have not seen any "critics" pushing things here. Most of what I read in the media is reactionary (i.e., reporting on what is occurring vs. being a forcing function).

Perhaps the decision that Stone made to produce a Pilsner under the Arrogant label is a good example here. There is an ongoing BA thread here: https://www.beeradvocate.com/community/threads/arrogant-pilsner.407378/

Maybe Greg Koch (@StoneGreg) can share more industry insight on this topic.

Cheers!

 

With 5.8% abv it sounds more in Export/Bock territory than "Pilsner" to me. Although 1 or 2 even stronger german beers that are labelled "Pilsner" do exist. But reading reviews(I haven't tried it), it sounds not really like a ballanced, sessionable, subtle beer, right, and is still among the bold and overly hoppy....?

 

I communicated with Mitch Steele on these very points and he confirmed that, yes, it is an amped up version for sure...

 

Sure...but c'mon. You're not implying Stone's is anything but a majorly amped up version, are you?

Granted the drop in OG and concomitantly IBUs is a problem, but going to some absolute opposite extreme is in no way a "solution."

 

I think this depends on what you're looking for; a traditionally styled Pilsner, or a "modern" U.S. craft take on the Pilsner... that usually ends up resembling a Pale Ale more than anything.

This summer I've been lucky enough to have had Sierra Nevada's Summerfest Pilsner, Sprecher's Pilsner, and Summit's new Keller Pils -- all very nice renditions, if not spot-on for that good German malt character. Wisconsin Brewing has just announced a new one too -- a German style beer from that brewmaster is always worth trying.

 

Right. A good reason. So why not test your skills within those parameters? Just because, as Mitch Steele told me, "that's kinda what we do"? Who, then, is being hamstrung by "tradition" here exactly @StoneGreg?

 

BA felsenpils has adroitly commented on the ‘decline’ of the German Pilsner in several of his posts on BA:

“Dear fellow beer advocates:

I studied under Professor Doktor Narziss when I was in the brewmaster program at the Technichal University of Munich at the Weihenstephan campus. I also had the honor of acting as his translator when he met with the late, great beer hunter Michael Jackson years ago. This man is the world´s foremost expert in the field of brewing science. He wrote all of the text books which we used at the University and he taught there for years. If there is a beer god, he is it. I have been present at symposiums in Germany where many of the country´s top brewmasters, brewing engineers and Doctors of Brewing Science are present. When Professor Doktor Narziss enters the room, everyone stands and applauds for minutes and trust me on this, Germans rarely show this type of behavior. His depth of understanding of every aspect of beer and brewing is the result of a lifetime of research in the field. He and Belgian Jean De Clerck are the very pioneers of modern brewing science and they were also close colleagues. Former students of his can be found in breweries all around the world and each will tell you as I am telling you, what Sigmund Freud was to psychology, Professor Doktor Narziss is to brewing. Even Michael Jackson had a lot of fear and anxiety before meeting him, a sentiment which he confided to me. Fortunately, the Professor is a kind man and actually treated Mr. Jackson as a colleague, not just a journalist. The criticism of the state of German brewing is well founded and needs to be addressed. The beers have indeed been dumbed down and are being produced as cheaply as possible within the constraints of the Reinheitsgebot. It is similar to what happened in the US after Prohibition and World War II. What the Professor was trying to say is that we (his students) know how to make the highest quality beer and that by intentionally not doing so, we are doing a disservice to our craft and to his legacy. And that is resounding loudly within the German brewing industry.”

Douglas, the issue (as I am sure you fully understand) is that the German beer industry is under the control of businessmen and accountants and their principle goal is to produce product that can be sold cheaply while still making a profit. Professor Narziss knows that the German brewers know how to properly brew but since they are directed to use less ingredients (less malt to stay under 12 degrees P and less hops) there will be impacts to the quality of the resulting beer. I am sure that Professor Narziss is saddened by these state of affairs.

Cheers!

 

That sounds good!

 

5.8% and 50IBU is not a majorly amped up anything. It's a return to normalcy.

 

Can you support that claim with examples showing those levels were ever the norm? Thanks.

 

Who has ever denied that the industrial German brewers have decreased OG and IBUs in recent years/decades?

 

And that is indeed a sad situation.

Cheers!

 

And yet the commonly accepted "bottom" that is Oettinger pils still tops most if not all German "craft" pils in blind testings.

 

Looks like in some ways German "craft" may be redefining the bottom...