Why so many IPAs, so few IPLs?

don't like the yeast used to make lagers, reminds me of more than a few bad nights in college.....

 

Going back to your original post, the way I read it was doppelbocks are palER than maibocks, but I see your intent was to say a doppelbock can be palER in general. All that being said, maibock > all other Lagers

 

yes paler in general. =) I read a post the other day from a ba who said something that made me go right out and buy a beer. I wrote him and said I went out and got this beer because of what you said. He writes back - that is what I said but that's not what I meant.

 

Lager yeasts should impart very little flavor. You are probably talking about the flavors from corn in adjunct lagers.

 

I didn't realize how little aging time is needed for wood spirals. Still, it's not quite as fresh as regular Jai Alai, but I understand that might be splitting hairs. I have no problem with brewers barreling IPAs... For example, I think Odell's Barrel Thief is one of the best DIPAs I've ever tried. Hops don't have to be super fresh if that's the flavor profile the brewer is going for.

 

If Cigar City adds the spirals during the dry hopping phase this beer will be equally fresh to regular Jai Alai.

Cheers!

 

OK fine!

I'd rather be corrected than wrong.

 

Kiwi Rising is exactly what it would look like. I'm no brewer, but from my understanding of the way the "NE Style" IPA brewers make their beers, and the specific English Ale yeast (not Chico) needed to make them come out the way they do, you simply could not replicate it via lagering.

So Kiwi Rising is late hopped with NZ hops, not particularly bitter (probably reduced hopping at boil) and is as fragrant and "juicy" as just about anything else. It doesn't present the pillowy soft mouthfeel of something like Julius or Haze, and honestly, I don't think any lager could. So it's about as close as anyone could get, and is a fantastic beer.

 

Yes, not a fan of any. Just not a fan of the style I guess. My blanket statement was probably a bit harsh. I love their House Lager though...

 

I'll default to two reasons why IPLs are not more common...

1. History. IPAs are a thing. They've beer around awhile and only seem to increase in popularity. Why would a brewer want to fix what is not broken? Or worry about marketing something different when IPAs are already popular?

2. Process. Lagers take additional steps and time that ales don't. At the end of the day that equals extra money for commercial beer producers.

I mainly chimed in to add...

IPLs make sense for breweries that are already established lager producers. They have the equipment, the space, and the time. From a marketing perspective they probably see an advantage in IPLs as a way to differentiate themselves from the IPA masses.

I'm also surprised by how many misconceptions I have seen about lager yeast in this thread. Too many people equate the styles they are used to seeing lager yeast produced as if the fundamental difference is the yeast, and not the other ingredients being used. The maltiness, lack of hop presence, corn flavor, etc. commonly associated with various lagers has more to do with the malt and hops used than the yeast, though I don't want to downplay that the yeast is important for these styles.

In other words I would be willing to bet that in blind taste testing BAs, much less the average craft beer drinker, could not repeatedly tell the difference between a pale ale brewed with a neutral lager or ale yeast, or an Oktoberfest brewed with a neutral lager or ale yeast. The other ingredients are more key to the style.

Don't get me wrong, I do not want to come across as saying yeast choice, even in styles using neutral yeast strains, is unimportant. Especially in very malt forward styles like pilsners, oktoberfests, bocks, etc. there is something about lager yeast that cannot be matched by ale yeast. I do think, however, that swapping lager yeast for a neutral lager yeast is not as discernible, and if anything can bring that extra degree of dryness and neutrality that few ale yeasts can.

 

then that, whatever it is, don't like it whatsoever. and that taste is in every "______ lager" i try.

 

Otter Creek did a great one-off 2xIPL last summer for their 25th anniversary. I would definitely be down for more of that.

 

Just pale lagers?

Lagers are a pretty large category - American Adjunct Lagers are nothing like Dunkel Lagers, Schwarzbiers, Doppelbocks, etc.

 

I'm not going to say that it's a match, but if you had a well-made, unfiltered and unpressurized, gravity dispensed kellerbier you might find that gap is narrower than you previous thought. All conjecture on my end.

 

I think the answer to this question, freshness, has been downplayed in this thread. For modern IPAs, anyway. You simply cannot create the hop saturated beers breweries are putting out today if you put them in the fridge for months.

The reason is that these styles rely on large amounts of hops late in the boil or after the boil, but before fermentation. You can dry hop an IPL all you want, but those initial hop charges will fade a little bit more every day you lager that beer.

That means to me that an IPL will always be basically an old IPA fermented with lager yeast, and maybe with fresh dry hops added. With modern hop bombs being as popular as they are today, I think that's why IPLs won't take off. Not to say IPLs can't be good...

 

Why so many IPAs...period?

 

As far as I know,all beer is artificial. Unless there is an underground natural beer lake somewhere.........

 

I mostly agree with this paragraph. With that out of the way, lagering a beer for a month or so does create qualities that I think are notable (well they are notable for my palate).

As a point of example I recently brewed an Altbier using an neutral ale yeast strain (Wyeast 1007 - German Ale Yeast) and then bottled and then lagered in the bottles for 4 weeks. I tasted that beer prior to lagering and post lagering and for me there was a notable difference; the lagered beer was more crisp.

I suspect that your assertion of most folks would not pick up on this is true.

Cheers!

 

Chris, FWIW I have had Mahr's Ungespundet-hefetrüb on cask served via gravity pour several times. I greatly enjoyed drinking those beers over the draft/bottled version and I did note a relatively more soft mouthfeel but not to the level I perceive in the so called 'NE' style IPAs (including my homebrewed 'NE" style IPA).

Cheers!

 

I say they tast "artificial",
not that they are or are not