Cellarmaker to start bottling.

Alvarado openly acknowledges that they experiment with unique yeasts to add flavors to some of their hazy ipas. If you want to ignore that and go around yelling about how scratchy and peppery their beers are then be my guest.

Not sure how knowing this fact makes anyone an apologist either, maybe look into a brewery a little instead of just buying beers because it says hazy and has funny pictures on the can...

 

I've detected it on a few IPAs I've brewed in the past. It typically goes away after a week or two in the bottle or keg possibly from letting some of the yeast & hop matter in suspension settle to the bottom. I've also detected it in some of Monkish's early haze (which is probably why some folks asserted they were best after a couple of weeks) as well as some random stuff like Treehouse Bright and MBC Lunch. I'm not that sensitive to it so I doesn't bother me. I also just consider it a consequence of brewing beer with low flocculating yeast as well as extreme hop usage. For me, it's not worth freaking out over since more often than not, waiting a little time for super fresh beer to come together is something I'm used to doing anyway.

My opinion is that thuey has a high degree of sensitivity to it so his threshold is fairly low compared to others. Since he has weekly access to ASB beers, and has sampled a fair share of beers from them, he can conclude that something's amiss with their beers in comparison to other local beers he has regular access to. However, unless he has the same level of access to out-of-region beers, I'm skeptical of his claim that the phenomenon doesn't exist elsewhere.

 

RE: burn

You can find discussion of "burn" as a descriptor in some homebrewing threads:

https://www.beeradvocate.com/community/threads/hop-burn-ne-style.547240/
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/forum/threads/my-neipa-tastes-like-im-eating-a-hop.638796/

You can also see the term used in some beer reviews:

https://www.beeradvocate.com/beer/profile/28743/207976/

source: review of treehouse doublebanger on another site

I guess the point I'm trying to make here is that burn can be found in beers outside of those made by ASB.

 

jesus. fucking. christ. it's like fan boys and iphones crossed with beer. it's a feature

 

I'm drinking a Broceanography from Humble Sea right now, and absolutely getting a hint of burn...but I've always termed it in my head as "alcohol burn", since I almost exclusively experience it in high alcohol IPAs. Funny thing is the first 3 cans I had didn't have it as strong.

I definitely agree with the idea that it bothers some people more than others, since for me I am still enjoying the beer And I definitely really like Alvarado's hoppy offerings. The Cool Runoffs cans I brought with me to Mexico were among my favorite recent DIPAs, but perhaps it's because they are a few weeks old and the burn decreased.

@thuey when we meet up hopefully we can try a taster of Big Lots and discuss :-)

 

There's alcohol burn, which is the warm/hot feeling when the liquid goes down your throat. The burn folks are talking about in this thread refers to a spicy or peppery sensation. It doesn't even need to be a NEIPA, though, it appears as though it happens more frequently with them.

 

You just have to accept that we all perceive taste differently. Some people love cilantro while others find it off-putting because they taste soap. This applies to beer as well--i.e. the perception of cat piss with beers that utilize certain hop strains like Citra.

 

I wanted an umbrella but don’t like the wordage on it.

 

Because we're not talking about hops and bitterness. Is it really that hard to understand?

 

I'm not convinced it's yeast. I'm sure it's easier to attribute any burn sensation one might have to yeast since most folks attribute the haze in NEIPA to yeast in suspension, but I'm pretty sure haze is mostly due to the use of flaked grains in the grist.

The burn is likely due to hops. Some discussion of that can be found here:

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/forum/threads/northeast-style-ipa.568046/page-122#post-8094432

 

I fully confess that I don't know for certain it's yeast-caused or hop-caused but here's the thing...

• How come this burning sensation doesn't occur in WC IPAs?
• Or even the typical unfiltered IPA that Cellarmaker usually makes?
• And if it's by severe hopping... why didn't it exist in Beer Week '16 Hazy Quadruple Dobis or unfiltered WC Fall '17 Quadruple Dobis?

I'm not saying I know it all, but the one common thread appears to be "expressive" & ASB yeast

 

Well, by your admission, you haven't really been serious about craft beer that long so it's possible you just haven't tasted enough (which is why I said you have to increase your data points). Your experiences might just be coinciding with the rise of the NEIPA in the West Coast.

The first time I experienced any kind of burn was when I brewed my first all-grain west coast DIPA around 2012 or 2013. I used a ton of hops in my dry hopping schedule. I also didn't make any adjustments to my water profile. The result ended up being kind of a vegetable-like sting if that makes any sense. haha Took a couple of weeks of bottle conditioning before it became drinkable.

There are multiple variables that can affect the outcome of the beer from water chemistry, fermentation temps, hop usage, etc. Furthermore, your perception's going to be affected by any subconscious biases you might have. It's going to be tough to make any definitive statement about your experience unless you do some kind of double blind taste test with a wide range of beers. I think that's why folks are on your case about this.

 

I guess I'm flabbergasted at your response. At any step of the way you're going to say I haven't been drinking long enough or I haven't tried enough beers.

I have 641 unique beers on Untappd since I started using it at the end of 2015. Hell, I wasn't even that committed to checking in the beers I've tried until mid 2016. AND I only check in stuff I have on tap, and not in cans. So that number is pretty under-represented of how much beer I've tried. I think that's a pretty good number, but you're free to tell me otherwise.

 

To be clear, I'm not saying you're lying about your experiences with ASB's beers. I believe you when you say you're experiencing some kind of burn from them. I just don't believe you when you claim it doesn't exist in beers made by other breweries, because that's clearly false. I also think your past experiences with ASB beers are possibly having an effect on your perception of their beers overall and might be the reason why your negative experiences are the exact opposite of many here. That's happened to me in the past with Mikkeller and The Bruery. At the end of the day, though, drink what you like...

 

It would be nice to get the thread back on track...but I will at least add that I have experienced the same sensation with certain ASB beers as thuey, particularly Contains No Juice and a recent batch of Minesweeper. The first can of Minesweeper was two or three days old and it was harsh. A week later it was a much more enjoyable beer. I'm sitting on my Hazing Saddles cans for a few more days. I've experienced what I have always called "hop burn" to a lesser degree with some Aslin beers and various other hazy IPAs however some of the above points (like why don't we experience this with WC style IPAs etc) do make me wonder about the effect of yeast in the turbid IPAs on that sensation. Anyway back to Cellarmaker...does anyone miss Dank Statement as much as me!?! We need a new batch!

 

Also, looks like Big Lots took offense to the most recent release. Now simply called "Collab with Alvarado Street" on the website.

 

Yep, I've experienced this with certain Aslin beers, although I never thought to attribute it to yeast.