Wyeast 3724? Because I said so...thats why.

That sounds great. Sounds like you are very carefully watching the temp. You should have no problems.
I always like to do a secondary. it really helps the yeast separate, especially in a low-flocc yeast like 3724. it also allows aging time. the only reason not to do a secondary is to save time.
Starter sound like a great idea, but it would help to know your target OG.

Yeah, just be patient and keep and eye on temp and gravity. Can you post the recipe?

 

1) Make sure to add a good dose of yeast nutrient to the boil.

2) Don't do a secondary. Every recipe kit I have ever seen says to do one, but they are not necessary unless doing extended aging, or a second fermentation (say of fruit, or wild bacteria and yeast).

3) I would start with foil over the top and allow it to breathe the first few days. Open fermentation seems to be one of the best things for Saison strains, 3724 especially.

4) Set it and forget it. Set your temps, walk away, and don't mess with it for 4 weeks. Take a gravity sample after 4 weeks to see where it is. If it is still high, leave it alone another week. If it is still high, leave it alone another week.

5) 2 weeks at 55-60 in bottles will not get you to the desired carbonation levels on this beer. Give it at least 3 weeks, and I would either keep it inside the same container you are using to heat the starter, or in a ferm chamber with your next beer, or in the warmest area in your house. After it hits full carbonation move the bottles to the basement until ready to chill and drink.

6) Send me bottles for feedback and to say thank you for 1-5...

 

I personally only conduct a primary when brewing ales without additions (e.g., oak, fruit, etc.).

Given the schedule you outlined of:

· Primary: 1.5 – 2 weeks

· Secondary: 1.5 months

Yeah, maybe conducting a secondary makes sense in this case. Keeping the beer on a yeast cake for a total of 2 months is longer than I would prefer.

Just take great care in conducting this secondary. Practice good sanitation and minimize the introduction of air (oxygen) during the transfer.

What is the OG for this batch of beer?

Cheers!

 

How long do you feel comfortable letting the beer sit on the yeast cake?

Cheers!

 

I've gone 5 weeks at 80+*F with 3724 with no issue. Autolysis isn't as big an issue in a 5 gallon batch as it is in a 50 barrel batch, as it is not just time and temp, but also pressure. Only time I ever had autolysis in a beer was when I pitched a pint of thick and old slurry into a Wee Heavy that sat for 4 weeks. There was so many dead cells in that slurry that I was asking for it.

 

This is the way to go. If you really want to fiddle with temperatures, I'd say pitch at 68* then let it free rise where it wants to go, and boost temp into the 80s after 5 days.

 

I agree with that but I personally would not want to go 2 months on a cake regardless of 5 gallons.

Cheers!

 

Me either. I doubt this beer will take more than 4 weeks to hit terminal.

 

Don't do a secondary.

Most brewers (self included) have the patience to let a beer sit in primary for 5 weeks.

 

OP: Some of this has already been mentioned, but I'll C&P from another thread what I believe are the keys to foolproof success with 3724:

- Make an appropriate starter, targeting at least 0.75M cells/ml/°P. Do not follow the dumbed-down, generic instructions on the pack. (Or if you do, don't complain that the strain sucks.)
- Use a nutrient blend in the boil.
- Oxygenate the wort with pure O2.
- Use fermentation temperature control. It doesn't have to be particularly warm (anything above about 68F will work), but I suspect some peoples' problems have occurred due to a drop in temp. You can increase temp to finish fermentation if you are in a hurry, but it's not really necessary.

Expect 3724 to ferment slowly. It just does (usually). It can take several weeks. Don't assume "slow" means "stalled." I suspect a lot of "stalled" reports are really just slow (i.e. normal for the strain) fermentations, without noticing the gravity coming down slowly but surely. (And then confirmation (bias) is just a quick google away. "Crank up the temp!" "Rock the carboy!")

 

A good dose of yeast, such as that from a stir plate starter (use a yeast calculator), some aeration of the wort, a modestly warm temperature (like 70 degrees), and a modicum of patience, and you'll have a saison. Extreme measures not needed.

 

Patience is not the issue here. The issue is does over a month on the yeast cake have 'impacts' to the flavor profile of the resulting beer.

It is indeed true that yeast autolysis will occur more quickly in tall CCV fermentation tanks but even 5 gallon batches can be impacted over time (e.g., greater than a month).

Do you have any references to scientific papers which indicate that yeast autolysis has zero impact here?

Cheers!

 

Sorry that was meant to say don't have the patience. As in I never leave a beer in primary longer than three weeks cause I'm inpatient.

 

Has anyone ever tried the mashing and fermenting regime that DuPont does for their beers that Phil Markowski outlines in his book? Starting at 113 and slowly raising it over 1:48 to 162 to maximize fermentability. Fermenting at 85-95 the whole time. Also they add no sugar to Vieille Provision and it still gets to 1.005. It’s 100% Pilsner malt.

Also has anyone else ever come across info that states that adding more simple sugars can make it more difficult for specific yeast strains to ferment the complex sugars at the end of fermentation. So potentially adding sugar to a beer fermented with 3724 could actually increase the likelihood of a stall?

 

OP, this sums it up. Plus the preceding post by VikeMan.

Do these things, keep your equipment sanitized, leave your saison alone for about 4 weeks, and you'll be fine. Cheers and welcome.

 

Keep in mind that Dupont has a blend of at least 4 strains, 1 rumored to be a Brett b strain. Wyeast 3724 is only one of the 4. Speculation is that WLP 565 is a similar but different strain. WLP 566 is another separate strain, a diasticus Sacc strain, which would explain Dupont's faster turn around time with this strain alongside the other two and a Brett strain.

 

I'm interested in hearing if anyone feels that they have stumbled upon (or determined elegantly) the perfect proportion of these strains (or other saison blends). I liked the averagely perfect brett saison recipe, but didn't think mine came out all that Dupont-ish (it only had two of the four strains above). Was never a huge fan of the American Farmhouse blend that white labs puts out, either.