"Kettle Sours" - Sour Beers Mislabeled on BA

I’d suggest putting most kettle sours in tha American Wild Ale category. If you find one miscategorized that probably was a mistake by the BA who created the entry. On each beer’s page you can suggest an edit and recommend a change by one of the moderators.

 

I agree that they should be separate and I've had the same issue in the past when adding beers. Are kattle sours "wild"? It's all subjective, but I think there is enough of a difference that justifies a separate category.

As kettle sours tend to have fruit or other flavorings in them I usually classify them as Fruit n Field beers here on BA, instead of as American Wild Ales.

 

I think every beer should have it's own style since no two beers are exactly the same. We'll have so many styles that we'll need to number them, and they should only be stated in binary or octal.

If you get one for kettle sours, I want one for imperial pumpkin coffee milk stouts. We already have too many styles, quit trying to add new ones.

 

"wild ale" seems applicable. As to indicate the introduction of 'wild' yeast i.e. non-standard clean fermenting brewers yeast.

 

So if I understand correctly, your basic argument is that the current definition:

"...American Wild Ales are beers that are introduced to "wild" yeast or bacteria, such as Brettanomyces (Brettanomyces Bruxellensis, Brettanomyces Lambicus or Brettanomyces Anomolus), Pediococcus, or Lactobacillus."

should be rewritten and a new category created for when only Lactobacillus is used?

 

Not really; kettle sours bypass the lactobacillus altogether and just have the lactic acid added. And they can be turned over rather quickly. Many would say (I among them ) that this results in a much more straightforward and 'monotone' end product.

 

Ahhh, thanks.

That 'monotone' effect you mention is probably why I've never developed any particular taste/liking for kettle sours.

 

I don't think that is correct...I suppose you COULD sour a beer simply by adding lactic acid. My understanding is that this not generally how kettle sours are made.

At a high level:
1. Mash in as usual.
2. 10-15 min boil to kill any truly "wild" yeast and or/undesired bacteria.
3. Cool to acceptable pitching temp. for whatever 'wild' yeast/bateria you'll be pitching. I believe Lacto generally likes 90 - 110 F (ish?)
4. Let sit in your 'kettle' for around 48 hours or until desired pH is reached.
5. Traditional boil with hop addition
6. Pitch clean fermenting yeast.
7. Package your 'kettle' soured beer.

I would agree that simply adding lactic acid produces a much less 'interesting' beer from a flavor standpoint.

 

Ah, I stand corrected then.

Is there a way to know if any commercial brewers are doing the lactic acid thing, or is that just for homebrewers?

 

I think non-kettle sours are aged in barrels while the souring takes place, so it is more expensive to brew sours that way. Since you may not know whether a brewery has a barrel program, you could just look at the price of a beer and possibly tell that way. I'm going to guess that sour beers that come from barrels will cost 30-40 percent more.

 

If I understand correctly, kettle sour is more of a technique than a style. It's why "decoction ale" isn't a style. Kettle sour is more of a secondary descriptor, like "barrel aged" or "dry hopped". Kettle souring doesn't tell you nearly enough about the beer to constitute a style.

As for the "wild" description, my vote is no on that too. Maybe I'm a purist, but I don't see much wildness in using a strain of yeast/bacteria cultivated in a lab and sold to brewers. That's domesticated. Open air, fresh produce or infected barrels, that's wild.

 

By that logic a Tiger born in a zoo is domesticated and no longer needs to be treated as if it were a wild and/or dangerous animal.

 

Aren't most of them basically a bastardized modern Berliner weisse?

 

If you could buy a tiger at your local PetCo, and it acted predictably and controllable, then yes

 

No way to know other than asking. I'd be surprised if any commercial breweries were simply adding lactic acid, though.
Honestly, I don't think many homebrewers do that either. Kettle souring produces a better beer and isn't really that much more difficult. (source: am homebrewer.)

 

non-kettle, or 'traditional' sours are not necessarily barrel aged. The lack of a barrel program does not inherently mean that the brewery produces kettle sours only as opposed to 'traditional' sours.
'traditional' sours (Cantillon, Dutchess, Rodenbach, etc.) are expensive due to the time maturation time involved in producing those beers, which can frequently be multiple years.

 

I'm sure in due time this site will go through an update and have much more current styles available to categorize beers. Ipas are especially pushing for this with all the new styles like milkshake, sour NE and other IPAs. I'd imagine kettle sours will make it on their too, but until then, iust gotta throw everything under wild ales!