4% to 5%--New Entries?

Talk Discussion in 'BeerAdvocate Talk' started by dcw6363, Aug 27, 2019.

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  1. dcw6363

    dcw6363 Zealot (552) Nov 11, 2009 Wisconsin
    Trader

    So Utah has some dumb beer laws. Here is a thread that discusses them.

    https://www.beeradvocate.com/community/threads/utah-general-beer-rules.579167/

    One of the dumb laws is that all tap beer must be 4% by volume or lower. Same goes for beer bought in a grocery store: 4% or lower.

    However this law will change slightly on November 1, 2019. The limit will go up to 5% for tap beer and grocery store beer. As an aside, I was pretty disgusted by the small magnitude of this change--the bill originally had it going up to 6%, which is still dumb, but at least it would get some decent beer in the grocery stores. However the 6% was deemed too strong and so they settled on 5%. Mostly what this will do is get regular Bud and Miller in the grocery stores and on tap. (FYI Utah can make/sell stronger beer, they just can't put it on tap or sell it in grocery stores.)

    I think most of the 4% beers are... not great. Some of them are not bad. Sometimes if it's appropriate to the style, 4% is fine. However most of the 4% ales, stouts and porters are a bit thin.

    Anyway my question is this: if a beer goes from 4% to 5% on November 1, does it get a new entry?

    Here is what the BA FAQ says for how to add beer.

    Recipe Variations
    • Brewers will often tweak their beer recipes over the years for numerous reasons, however, don't add a new version of the beer for minor tweaks. Examples: a minor change in ABV, hop/malt variety.

    Is the change from 4% to 5% a "minor change"?

    I am guessing most of the brewers will be making the jump from 4% to 5%. I ask every time I go to a brewery and they all say "oh yeah we are going up." 5% is right around the target range for some styles, some of the German styles especially. There are some brewers that I think will make some damn good beer at 5%. Take Templin Family for example; they do some German styles. Their 4% stuff is pretty good, so I have high hopes for the 5% stuff.

    On the one hand, a 1% change is not so high in absolute terms. And some beers might not even change, if the brewer is happy with the recipe (and sales). Plus it would be hard to keep track of what beer is being reviewed--does the reviewer even know if it's a 4% or 5%? Most cans/bottles give the %, but not all (I think).

    On the other hand, 4% beer is... not ideal in most cases. 5% isn't either, but for certain styles 5% is closer to ideal. So speaking just for myself, I would lean toward retiring the reviews for any beer that goes from 4% to 5%, and starting a new category for that beer, even if the name is the same. I would want to at least give that beer a chance. It might have been somewhat weak or thin at 4%, but much better at 5%. This could be a problem logistically though.

    What say you BA? New entries for any beer that makes the switch?

    Edit: if this belongs in Mountain forum, feel free to move. Thought it could use some general opinions though.
     
    #1 dcw6363, Aug 27, 2019
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  2. raynmoon

    raynmoon Initiate (0) Aug 13, 2011 Colorado

    No
     
    #2 raynmoon, Aug 27, 2019
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  3. Premo88

    Premo88 Grand Pooh-Bah (3,682) Jun 6, 2010 Texas
    BA4LYFE Society Pooh-Bah

    1. I've no idea what to do about the BA.com entries. I could see that going both ways, and it's the brothers' job to figure it out.

    2. While I understand your plight ... and I do ... not having access to 100s of great beers sucks. But the idea that beer can't be great under 4% might be the No. 1 worst thing about the American craft beer movement (no offense, milk IPA). Again, I think any cap on ABV is a horrible idea, and I'm on your side about that. Seriously. And we think our laws in Texas suck. :rolling_eyes:

    But here's a list:
    https://www.beeradvocate.com/beer/profile/31902/106836/?ba=Premo88#review
    https://www.beeradvocate.com/beer/profile/35210/423733/?ba=Premo88#review
    https://www.beeradvocate.com/beer/profile/2150/5561/?ba=Premo88#review
    https://www.beeradvocate.com/beer/profile/383/366362/?ba=Premo88#review
    https://www.beeradvocate.com/beer/profile/4909/37039/?ba=Premo88#review
    https://www.beeradvocate.com/beer/profile/24018/75930/?ba=Premo88#review
    https://www.beeradvocate.com/beer/profile/187/599/?ba=Premo88#review

    That's a teeny tiny tip of an iceberg on how good beer can be under 4%. There's untold numbers of examples more, and if we go up to under 5%, virtually every beer I love falls into that category.

    OK, I'm off that soap box. Maybe you can start rounding up as many state congress(wo)men as you can and force feed them Stone Enjoy By or Old Rasputin or Prairie Bomb! until they get it. Geez, just a mainline of one of Rushing Duck's stouts would set the entire Utah congress straight.
     
    #3 Premo88, Aug 27, 2019
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  4. elNopalero

    elNopalero Grand Pooh-Bah (5,822) Oct 14, 2009 Michigan
    Pooh-Bah Trader

    Mayhaps this isn’t the right place for all my unanswered questions about drinking beer in Utah, but here goes...

    Are there already two of the “same” beer already in circulation out there? A 4% on tap and the actual/stronger sold in bottles? Typing it makes no sense to me, but then again so does capping the abv at 4%
     
    #4 elNopalero, Aug 27, 2019
  5. AZBeerDude72

    AZBeerDude72 Initiate (0) Jun 10, 2016 Arizona

    LOL I am beyond grateful I don't live in Utah. Holy cow with the laws, beyond silly.
     
    #5 AZBeerDude72, Aug 27, 2019
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  6. bbtkd

    bbtkd Grand High Pooh-Bah (7,790) Sep 20, 2015 South Dakota
    BA4LYFE Society Pooh-Bah Trader

    No kidding. I just had a great beer on tap the other day, at 15.5% ABV. The world didn't end, not going to hell for it. Puritanical laws only increase demand for what is limited/banned.
     
    #6 bbtkd, Aug 27, 2019
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  7. drtth

    drtth Initiate (0) Nov 25, 2007 Pennsylvania
    In Memoriam

    You know for sure you won't go to hell for that??? :slight_smile:
     
    #7 drtth, Aug 27, 2019
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  8. drtth

    drtth Initiate (0) Nov 25, 2007 Pennsylvania
    In Memoriam

    Understand the dilemma. Tweaking a recipe does not need a new entry, unless the brewer feels the number of changes are large enough to deserve a new name and the expense of re-branding. If you want, on the beer entry page, you can suggest the ABV get an edit and why, etc.
     
    #8 drtth, Aug 27, 2019
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  9. PapaGoose03

    PapaGoose03 Grand High Pooh-Bah (6,057) May 30, 2005 Michigan
    BA4LYFE Society Pooh-Bah

    'Holy' may be the operative word there. I'm guessing that the legislature is filled with members of the Mormon faith.
     
    #9 PapaGoose03, Aug 27, 2019
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  10. BrewsOverHoes

    BrewsOverHoes Grand Pooh-Bah (3,509) Nov 17, 2013 Georgia
    Pooh-Bah Trader

    Plot twist: Hell is actually Utah and he has to spend eternity there.:stuck_out_tongue:
     
    #10 BrewsOverHoes, Aug 27, 2019
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  11. drtth

    drtth Initiate (0) Nov 25, 2007 Pennsylvania
    In Memoriam

    Legislature there is dominated by folks from areas outside Salt Lake City, which is fairly cosmopolitan. As with some other religions, alcohol is a "no-no" for members of the Church. Unlike some countries, however, you can by alcohol there and there are some really fine breweries in Salt Lake area. There's a lot to recommend breweries that can produce a flavorful beer at low ABV.
     
    #11 drtth, Aug 27, 2019
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  12. drtth

    drtth Initiate (0) Nov 25, 2007 Pennsylvania
    In Memoriam

    If flavorful low ABV beers is your idea of Hell, don't visit the UK.... :sunglasses:
     
    #12 drtth, Aug 27, 2019
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  13. AZBeerDude72

    AZBeerDude72 Initiate (0) Jun 10, 2016 Arizona

    I would agree 100% with that.
     
    #13 AZBeerDude72, Aug 27, 2019
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  14. AZBeerDude72

    AZBeerDude72 Initiate (0) Jun 10, 2016 Arizona

    I am still on the look out for a low ABV session beer that tastes good. Maybe Utah can lead the way on this for us all? I am fine drinking low ABV beer if it tastes great, sadly most of the ones I had to date are on the watery/low flavor side.
    Cheers
     
    #14 AZBeerDude72, Aug 27, 2019
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  15. AZBeerDude72

    AZBeerDude72 Initiate (0) Jun 10, 2016 Arizona

    It makes zero sense, they are forcing low ABV but what is stopping folks from just drinking 10 of them to get a buzz. I really don't see it helping anything its just a feel good law in my book.
    Cheers
     
    #15 AZBeerDude72, Aug 27, 2019
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  16. dcw6363

    dcw6363 Zealot (552) Nov 11, 2009 Wisconsin
    Trader

    (Here I am discussing a beer style like a pils where 5% is close to the standard for the style.) My only thought is that the 4% entry is somewhat unfair to the brewer, since it doesn't represent the % that she/he feels is appropriate for the style. They were forced to brew it at 4%, but the 5% version is the way they want it. At least on a new entry, we are reviewing the beer the brewer wants to make, as opposed to the one she has to make.

    I think logistically it would be hard though.
     
    #16 dcw6363, Aug 27, 2019
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  17. drtth

    drtth Initiate (0) Nov 25, 2007 Pennsylvania
    In Memoriam

    What is stopping folks from just drinking 10 just to get a buzz? Well, one factor is the Bartender and the Dram Shop law, that makes the owner and/or the bartender legally liable if you drive drunk and do damage to other folks. Another is that if you do the 10 over the course of a long evening with friends your body processes out enouth alcohol that it can be done with out getting drunk.

    Feel good law? All laws are "feel good" laws. Especailly for the majority voters who elect the state legislature. If you think Utah is restrictive, don't bother to visit Saudi. :grin:
     
    #17 drtth, Aug 27, 2019
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  18. eppCOS

    eppCOS Grand Pooh-Bah (4,570) Jun 27, 2015 Colorado
    BA4LYFE Society Pooh-Bah

    Utah: a gorgeous state, with a good % of the population still trying to live like it's 1870.
    Or 1370.
    I mean, there already was a Dark Ages - don't need to relive that. Cheers.
     
    #18 eppCOS, Aug 27, 2019
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  19. drtth

    drtth Initiate (0) Nov 25, 2007 Pennsylvania
    In Memoriam

    For sure it is a challenge to a brewer to get flavor and low ABV at the same time. But for some that is part of the fun!
     
    #19 drtth, Aug 27, 2019
    Last edited: Aug 27, 2019
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  20. dcw6363

    dcw6363 Zealot (552) Nov 11, 2009 Wisconsin
    Trader

    I hear ya man, I am actually not a high ABV guy. In WI I drank a ton of good 4% beers; it helped that we had New Glarus there. Here in UT I am not finding a lot of good (for example) English milds, grisettes, berlinners, low % fruit beers etc. Some, but not a lot.
     
    #20 dcw6363, Aug 27, 2019
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